What's up guys, welcome back to Eat, Train, Prosper. This is episode 215. It is Brian and myself. We are talking Pro Camp in some of our April recap. It has been our longest hiatus since the inception of the podcast. So I apologize for that because it is 100 % my fault. There was just a lot going on, which I'm going to get into right now with the updates. So... As many of you know from from my previous episode musings, I have finally made the relocation back to the United States. I am in Salt Lake City, Utah. I have been here for just shy of two weeks. That came with a very large move from Bali, where we were living, bringing two cats with us through four flights. I lied three flights to get them here, settling in, walking into an empty home where we have nothing. It's truly been since we've actually lived in a home and not an Airbnb or something. It's 2018 was the last time we were stateside in an actual home. So it's been like eight ish years, something like that. So lots to lots to do lots to get up to speed. And then prior to leaving Bali, I had pro camp, which was Jackson Pias, my friend, business partner, organized 15 IFBB pros from all over the world. I think that we were from nine different countries, which was really, really cool. We spent a week together in a mansion in Bali. trained, we did recovery, we ate, we went through a lot of personal development and just growth sorts of things. So I have lots to talk about of that on the episode. But in terms of the relocation, it has been very fun. It's been something that my wife and I have been planning for years. I've wanted to move to the mountains since the first time I visited Boulder in 2012. and it's been a lot of a long journey to get here, but I'm very, very excited to finally be up in the mountains. That being said, it kicked my ass moving here. It was a combination of I was sick at Bolle Belly the week before pro camp. And then right at the end of pro camp, I contracted, I guess would be the proper term or came down with my first viral uh or sorry. was it called? Upper respiratory infection or upper respiratory illness easily in 20 years. I didn't even know what was going on. And then Jenny was like, that's that you have like an upper respiratory infection. And I was like, oh, fuck. But like my nose was just all stuffed in and my head hurts super bad and lots of stuff was coming out. And then we start flying. And my dumb ass, because I haven't had one in so long, like wasn't prepared. And then when you change altitude with an upper respiratory infection, The pressure in my face was like insane in between my eyes and everything. So I felt horrible. And then all the stress with the cats on this, these 12 hour flights and stuff. had multiple of them. We get here and going from Bali sea level and it's like 85 % humidity to Salt Lake cities at 4,300 feet in elevation and like 15, 20 % humidity. My body's just wrecked. My heart rate's like through the roof. my skin and my body's just leaking, evaporating all fluids inside of it. And like, I cannot stay hydrated. I'm waking up with my mouth stuck shut and my eyes. You never think about your eyes being like hydrated, but it like hurts to blink and stuff because they're so dry. I was in shambles for like four or five days and we had to do all of these things. We had to go get a car. We had to get desks for work, like get plates, but like everything. And I'm just a shell of myself. And then I was like, what was actually thinking? Like, why did I think I would be okay with, with all of this all happening at once? And that is a very roundabout way of why we have been on hiatus from the podcast for like six weeks, approximately something like that. So I apologize. I'm settled. I'm done being a gypsy for at least the time being. And we will be producing regular episodes on per our prior cadence. Yeah, love it. That is that's quite the update. So uh first off, you're you're here now. You've made it. um How are you feeling two weeks in? Have you gotten through all that stuff? Do you still feel like the excess of dryness? How's your energy, your sleep, all that stuff? I've been sleeping really, really well. Fortunately, you wouldn't think so based off of how I feel. I've been, I've had, think six gym sessions to have that two of them have felt about baseline. It took me probably six days of pushing like 550 and 600 grams of carbohydrate to be able to get a small pump in training. I think I was just so depleted. And then my heart rate was sitting at a hundred. Like literally all day long. Yeah, from the altitude change, it was just slamming and then walking around and stuff. And I think my I was just like very depleted and it didn't seem like how much salt I was putting on my food, how many electrolytes I would drink per day and my body was just ripping through it. So I'm on the back end of that. I still I can't say I'm 100 % probably, you know, 90. And that's engaging from training performances. um But I feel good. I'm happy. I'm super, happy to be here. Just going to the grocery stores again has been wonderful. Going to Costco and just getting three weeks worth of egg whites, you know, and once that I don't have to worry about Amazon or just hot, hot lapping Amazon packages. They're coming every day. So that's been the convenience is great. Um, and It hasn't worn off yet. I don't want it to wear off in the appreciativeness of these things where it will be, for example, like I needed this light for work. I'm like, I need this. I need this light because I'm down in the basement and it's kind of Dungy and I go in and buy it and in the morning it's there. And I'm like, this is absurd. This is absurd. In Bali. This would take me like two weeks to get. So that's been very, very fun having those things again. And just the conveniences. uh It has also been, like I said, it's been about eight years, so a lot of things have kind of changed as well. ah And now everything wants to be like an app. Like we go to Costco and they're like, just do it. Like I don't want to fucking Costco app. Just give me the card. Like you always do. I don't need, I don't need this whole new thing. And then we get car insurance and they're like, let's get set up on the app. I'm like, I don't need a fucking app for my car insurance. I just pay it every month and you can send me the stuff in the email. Like I'm not downloading some app for my car insurance. So that's been something new that I feel like a little bit old and in crotchety where the world's kind of shifted. And I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. Just give me. the fucking card. So, but not I'm happy. Jenny's happy. And we haven't we only went out on one small kidding really called a hike. It was more like a dog walk. Like trail where people take their dogs and stuff. But it was just very cool to be outside and moving and in nature again. So I'm very, very, very happy not to mention the gym has just been so sick. So I'm really happy about that. uh Have you noticed the elevation when you're kind of like, you know walking upstairs up a hill or doing cardio or anything? yeah. yeah. There's been no cardio done because living life is cardio and my body weight has plummeted. uh I when I left I was 231 and then that was Tuesday morning because I think I put the scale on like the one suitcase that I left there and I didn't weigh myself again until probably Maybe that first Sunday. So from like Tuesday to Sunday without weighing myself. And on Sunday when I got that scale, I was 220.1. So it's down 11 pounds. Uh, and, uh, and the sense I've only gotten back up to two 25 this morning. And ever since then it was only two 23s. So I muted maybe. Yeah, I guess that transitions a little bit into my weight fluctuation story, which is that I still can't stop gaining weight. It had stabilized for a little while with the TRT and it's just like, I really have to work at it now and it's the oddest thing because, like I talked about this before our six week break, but I'm legitimately eating less food and yet my body weight keeps going up. And I even feel like, it could be some fat like not majority fat. think it's probably mostly like water and glycogen and lean tissue and whatever. But like, it's just been so weird to me that I could possibly eat less food and still gain weight. And it kind of like, it floors me that if I were to want to lose weight, the amount of deficit that I would have to go to, given the fact that I'm already eating less food than I was eating. And so chat GBT is just like, yeah, you're making better use of the food. Like before you were in this highly sympathetic state. And so your body was just like dumping food. wasn't like digesting and disseminating properly where it needed to go. And now your body's like being more efficient with the nutrients that are coming in. So I'm getting more from less, but I have to eat less. So it's like this super backwards, frustrating loop that's like driving me insane because I don't want to live my life at two 10. Like I literally woke up. last two days at 211. So that means I'm going to bed at like 217, which is just wild. uh So I don't know, man, I don't know what to think about it. Like, I feel great. think like, honestly, the now being a number of months into TRT, like, I feel good, I have good energy workout motivation, my mood is great. Like I, I feel calm throughout the day, I do feel more maybe parasympathetically driven a little bit. But man, that The wheat thing is just wild. Yeah, it I am. I'm glad that you are experiencing these things because when you're when you're listening to it, you can just you can just think, yeah, I know he's saying that but he's probably not tracking his food or these different things. But because you have this this reality that you've operated within for the entire history of you like tracking your food and gaining muscle and training and then you put in a little bit of testosterone and that reality starts like Warping and you're like, whoa, how What's going on? How is this happening? But it really takes going through it to actually experience it and it's the efficiency thing your muscles get greedy with resources and you become more efficient in that. And then there's other transient things like there's, know, the, the, estrogen is likely elevated above your prior baseline. And that has impacts on the random angiotensin aldosterone system. your sodium and in fluid retention is a little bit higher, but again, that's, that's transient, but it all comes into play. And yeah, you're just heavier, literally. Yeah. also pointed out the other day that my abdomen just seems to be like more robust. Like I would equate it to like the way, you know, pro bodybuilders get GH gut where it's like, if they're still lean, they're at 6 % body fat, but they have like a big abdomen. And I don't think mine is nearly on the level like that. It's more like, you know, when you used to look at Fisher and you'd be like, damn, that dude kind of has like a muscle gut or whatever. That's kind of how like it feels to me now where my waist used to be like trim and refined and felt like pretty pretty thin when I would turn to the side. And now when I turn to the side, it's just like, it's not it's not fat. It's just big. And that also is kind of like not the most aesthetic thing ever. Yeah, that one. wish I could. I wish I could remember what it was. Someone did a really, really good post about it. The I really wish I could find it, but they basically took uh I think it was a cross-sectional MRI maybe of like themselves or natural endurance athletes sort of thing versus like a very seasoned bodybuilder, someone in their 40s or 50s with prolonged years of anabolic and stuff and what it actually is. It's the hypertrophy of the transverse abdominis in the intra obliques and stuff like that that did hypertrophy over because over years and years of exposure to super physiologic, you know, androgen levels that that sees permeates into everything you get hypertrophy across, you know, all major muscles are all, you know, effectively all muscles and that's because you don't usually see it in even if you're even in your open class bodybuilders in their 20s early 30s. It's the really the guys who were into their 40s and have doing it for so long they get that and it was very very well done I really wish I could remember it. But it's very similar to what the high level CrossFit athletes get. And it's that hypertrophy of the transverse abdominis to intro obliques because of so much force needed to be able to brace to move all the heavy, crazy weights and stuff they get. Because if you look, you don't get it in your, what do you call it? your, your weekend warrior CrossFit athletes. It's the games athletes, like the top of the top because they're all freakishly strong and stuff. And it's that crazy high breathing. under that. It was super, super well done. If I find it, I'll make sure to keep a note for a future episode. But it was such a cool post all about that. you don't think there's aspects of like organ growth or organ enlargement that's occurring in there at all? Not unless you're pushing a large amount of growth hormone to which your wallet will be feeling it first. Yeah. Well, cool. That was helpful. And ultimately, like neither of the weight gain nor the distended abdomen piece are are large enough negatives for me to want to not do it. It's more just these things that I now have to kind of like be aware of and manage. And uh anyway, I guess that transitions into like some of my other updates like training, which is going amazing. uh Training is so fun. Like I'm getting so much more. It's weird because I was like on a low volume program before and it felt good before TRT. But now I feel like I get so much more out of every set that I do that it almost feels like I could do less. Like like you mentioned, the pumps are stronger or whatever. It's like the connection to the muscle is stronger. um It's it's been really weird to work through it and be like, man, I just did like one set of leg curls and I'm already. like cramping up in my hamstrings. ah So that's been cool. And then like I'm getting stronger. And I don't know how much of this is the fact that I gained weight, like maybe I would have been getting this much stronger equivalently if I just gained 15 pounds and didn't do TRT. But the fact that I'm doing TRT and I'm up weight makes it a little more ambiguous, but I'm getting stronger, which has been super fun. I mean, to go through years of like, I'm up one rep over six months on my leg thing or whatever. to being like, every session or two, I'm adding five pounds or a rep and cumulatively, you don't notice it so much session to session, but cumulatively, the two things that have floored me is uh before TRT, I was doing T-bar rows at 170, so not quite four plates, just shy of four plates, and it was six, seven reps to failure. And I just got up to 200 pounds for six the other day, which is a 15 % improvement with form the same and whatever and over four plates on a T bar row. I never thought I would get there either. And then on my like little hack press machine thing, 600 for five was my PR. And I just did it for three by five uh last week. And there was like at least two RIR on the last set. So my guess is that I could have done it for like nine if I was fresh. which almost is like doubling the output. That's like turning a one rep max into a two rep max or like a two rep max into a four rep max or something like that. Like it's just crazy progress to be getting at this stage of my life. So that's been fun. And uh I guess the only other quick training update is like, I wrote this program on Brian's program that I'm doing that was three full body sessions over nine days. So essentially one full body session every three days. And I just, I just can't do it, man. I can't do long workouts. It's not just that it's full body, which is its own problem, but it's just how long it is. I think doing the bro split this winter, I just loved my sessions being under 40 minutes so much. I got so much out of them. ah And now I'm at a point where I just don't want to be in the gym training hard for more than 40 minutes. So I've begun splitting that full body session into upper lower, which means that I'm getting about 35 minutes of lower body and 40 to 45 minutes of upper body on alternating days. And I'm just kind of alternating upper lower, upper lower in that way. And that's been great. So it basically is the same volume that I was doing in the full body training. I've just split it into two. And so I've been enjoying that. And that's more than likely what I'm probably going to continue doing going forward. just doing a 75 minute session that covers the whole body is just insane. I can't, I don't. I don't know how I ever did anything like that or why people would regularly want to put themselves through that. I don't know. I always come back to that same conclusion. I mean, don't get me wrong. If there's dictations on life and schedule and children and it's you have, can realistically train two times per week. Like that's what you need to do. But um for people like us where training priority is just a higher precedence in a life priority, I just wouldn't do it. I can't see any actual reality where I would do that as opposed to just changing parts of my schedule so that I didn't have to. Are you on the push-pull legs thing still? So I have had some revelations from Pro Camp and what I had actually just started. um Funny enough, I wrote the split down in the shower. I do my best thinking in the shower. If there was some kind of little scratch pad that was like a, that's good product idea right there. It's like a waterproof little notepad that stays in the shower. Cause I'm always like writing it with my finger, you know, on the glass and then trying to like not get it wet so I can, and I'm like reading it a couple of times so that I can remember it. But what I'm currently doing or what I started is a pull, push, legs. That's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday is off. Friday is upper Saturday is delts. Um, as much as I love training legs, I for until while I'm still competing or have a competition goals, it's really just opportunity cost. And my legs have, have grown and it doesn't help my physique for my, for the category and my delts. and my upper back are the glaring weaknesses in my physique. So I need to prioritize them from a volume standpoint and an execution standpoint. On the upper day that's before the DELT day, are you doing that in the absence of direct DELT work or are the DELTs getting hit directly both days? The upper, so on the push day, I will do delts and then on the delt day, I will do delts. So the upper day is gonna be primarily chest and back. With chest and back and then I'm gonna do calves on the delt day also. So I can get calves in twice. are just getting hit like kind of through the other movements, through the compound movements. arms will get ah on I did I'm going to pick one bicep exercise because there's this new gym the refinery gym here in Utah it is John is just he's such an equipment nerd that it's literally the best pieces across all brands. They're all and one thing it's cool. I can't say that I necessarily agree with this approach, but I do respect it. He's an old school America first type guy. So all the equipment is American made equipment minus a couple pieces. There's like an old Panada press in there, but it's it's Cybex, you know, rogue stuff. um my god, so much Nautilus, the carrying in pre core like literally life fitness, hammer strength, all of it, right, all of it all and even like this the small, you know, body masters flat, have an original flex leverage incline flex leverage flat press paramount stuff literally like all of it. So um There's really good biceps machine. So I'm going to do, I'm just going to pick one that I really like and do more volume there. I do a giant set on triceps on the push day. And then I will do, think one exercise bicep and tricep, probably like a cable superset on the upper day, because there's certain things where Now that I'm just running my 140 milligrams per week testosterone with my fertility protocol, I have to kind of really try to build muscle sort of thing. I'm not gonna get any of that just, oh, you're on gear and things grow. So I'm really putting a strong emphasis on the body parts that are harder for me. But I know once I go into a prep or something like that and go from TRT to regular gear escalation dosages, my arms are just gonna explode again from literally using them. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I often do just chest and back on an upper day. And in my mind, I feel like doing chest and back actually trains the entire upper body. Albeit maybe like lateral delts get less than the others. Like you see it some lateral delt work through rowing and stuff like that. But like there's no direct lateral delt work. But doing chest and back, you're getting your biceps, you're getting your triceps, you're getting your anterior delts and your posterior delts. So I mean, oftentimes I'll just be like, yeah, I'm just doing chest and back today, but call it like an upper day and you feel like your entire upper body gets trained. So it's great. I mean, those are definitely the muscles you should prioritize. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about that. I'm excited to kind of get stuck in. And one thing that I really like, I've never done this before because I don't think I've ever been in a gym that had so much equipment. I think I can have two completely different. cycles of the same so like every other Monday I'll train the exact same push day But I can swap my chest prep or my Monday's pull But you got I'm saying I like I can do an incline and a flat press on Monday the following Monday I can do a completely different incline and flat press same thing. There's the gym has Six overhead shoulder presses, there's eight leg presses in the gym eight four hack squats, it's absurd. So. in San Diego. Yeah, it's absolutely gigantic and there's probably 100 pieces of equipment in there. that's amazing. Chris Beardsley would be shaking his fist at you. Aaron, you better do the same exercise each time or you're gonna atrophy and lose all that muscle you gained. Yeah, yeah. All right, so before we jump into pro camp, I have three more updates. I'll be as quick and uh succinct as I can here. About three weeks ago, I went on my annual bike trip with the bros. It was awesome. We went to Fruta, three days of mountain biking, except that... We actually only got two days of mountain biking in because we biked on Thursday and Saturday. On Friday, it decided to snow and freeze in Fruto, which is like literally we've been doing this trip for five straight years and it's been 72 and sunny every day of every single trip that we've done and it decided to snow and freeze on Friday. So we sat around and we played a bunch of cards and ate food and whatever. So a great trip overall. That was awesome. Then, okay, today is Thursday, last Wednesday, so eight days ago, I woke up and my foot was in extreme pain. I couldn't put any pressure on it. I went to bed Tuesday night completely fine. Like, literally felt amazing, did 17,000 steps, lifted like normal day, whatever. Woke up Wednesday morning, could not walk. And we were supposed to leave Thursday morning for our Moab trip, is like out into Utah, like kind of closer to you out to the Red Rocks and stuff. And we were supposed to leave, we were leaving for this trip Thursday morning. I couldn't walk on Wednesday and no clue what caused this foot pain. Like I've talked to a number of PT friends that I have and stuff and like there's all these different theories out there. I am completely floored by why my foot. randomly decided to not let me walk on it starting on Wednesday. So now we're eight days later and I would say that I'm finally like 80%. Like I definitely still can't run. I'm walking with a very slightly modified gate. Yesterday my gate was more modified today it's a little less modified. It's like pretty damn close but ah still not perfect. Still no clue why my foot got injured. The only correlation I can possibly think is that two days before my foot injury, I did some Cossack squats, which was a movement that I don't do very often. It's like a lateral lunge where you kind of let your foot go to your inner arch to get more depth as you lean to the side. So I did some Cossack squats, but even that, like the part of the foot that you go into on the arch is the inner arch. And it was my outer arch that actually was in extreme pain and wouldn't let me put any pressure on it. So dude. fucking who knows I went to Moab wasn't able to do anything fun. I literally couldn't walk. So like everyone's out there like hiking and rock climbing and like all this shit and I'm just like sitting there drinking a beer like it just so brutal. Yeah, even driving like six hours to Moab and back my foot was like flooded with blood as it was sitting below my heart rate you know or below my heart. So it's throbbing the entire time. Really unfortunate. So That's pretty much it. think those are my updates. I talked about training and TRT and things like that. yeah, tell me about Pro Camp. I'm super excited to hear about this. Yeah. So the concept is how bodybuilding is generally looked at as a very, very individualized sport, right? It's a solo journey sort of thing. So Jackson had this idea to turn it into a little bit of a team endeavor, right? Bring people from different parts of the world together to Bali, which for things like this, like Bali is magical in that sense. Get people together. We obviously now that we have undefeated. Things can be very, very well tailored. We, you know, tailored our times and everything there. We train at Undefeated. We have recovered Undefeated. We all stay at a giant, you know, mansion villa, food, bodybuilding food provided by pump. And then we, you know, do some dinners together and stuff, train together, get to know each other, have some, you know, team building experiences and conversations and stuff and enjoy it. What's really cool is for the first two pro camps, I was playing a background role. For example, the first one is we sprinted to release the cream of rice product and get it to the pros, right? And then in the second pro camp, we were sprinting to get the gym ready. um Our other partner, Jordan Madashi and I built equipment over two days, 24 hours over two day period. carrying, building and assembling the equipment in Undefeated Sunday, Saturday, Sunday and into Monday for Pro Camp to start on Monday. So um that sucked in full transparency, but it was a very good launch for Undefeated. And now this one actually being able to be a part of it because Pro Camp is pros only and to get to experience all the fun parts and not just doing background grunt work. So it was very, cool. The highlight that I would say is getting to, was getting to train with Breon twice for anyone who's not super plugged in. Breon is who was the classic physique Olympia winner for multiple years before sea bums rain. And he's actually, he's been, he's made the Olympia for 10 years straight, which is wild. Very impressive. And then this year he is moving to 212 because at his uh height his Olympia weight caps 181 something like that and Brion's a big dude so Muscle wise so that was a that's quite a significant, you know We call that limiter cap to have so he's moving 5'8 ish maybe something like that. um But what he would say is even in his offseason he couldn't really eat because his body weight would just naturally like float up. So he would be kind of like semi dieting the whole year because he couldn't let his body weight float up and when we saw him he was 215 and still pretty fucking lean at 215. So That was really, cool. I got to train shoulders with him and then a chest and triceps session. And the only thing that I will say from that and mind you, before I get into this, Brianne is 46 years old. He trained us into the ground. Absolute ground. The shoulder session, was him, myself and Jackson. It was the hardest training session that I had in easily a year and a half. Just shoulders. What'd you guys do? And I'm going to tell you in the funny thing is it is super rudimentary. We only used two machines. We started with a Smith machine overhead press and we ended with rear Dell machine fly. Everything else was dumbbells and it was absolutely brutal. um And what was really cool was before the day before pro camp started, we had a free event at undefeated where Brian came in. had like a big Q and a thing seminar. taught some things and then it just a big open long Q and a and a meet and greet sort of thing. And some of the questions I remember asking this question, because I said, as an, as an older athlete, joint integrity becomes something of a concern. So what are some of the things that you say that you do for maintaining, you know, joint integrity? And what was really funny is one of his answers is stretching. It's like a stretch every day. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. He's like, and then I just do higher. Yeah. Yeah. And then he was like, I do higher reps. I train higher reps. And I was like, okay, you know, that makes sense. And then I got to experience what higher reps are and Brian trains 20s across everything. Everything is sets of 20. Um, so into the shoulder press or sorry, into the shoulder workout, we started with three sets of 20. uh anterior delt press on the Smith machine and then the third set had a drop set and one of the things with with how Breon trains is you're always getting 20 reps right E and that means assisted reps and stuff if you miss load and come in And that is where the intensity really skyrockets because when you are, let's say, you for example, lateral raise, right? You do, you're doing, you're aiming for 20, you get whatever 14 on your own. When someone steps in and starts carrying you through that extra rep range that you can't access on your own, the, like the stimulus, I guess I can say really skyrockets there and the fatigue and the, intensity that you internalize and perceive from it. So that's how we started. Then we went into a lateral dealt dumbbell raise sequence where we went 20 reps, 15 reps, 10 and 10, increasing weight. And then we reverse that with the same dumbbells 10, 10, 15, 20. And then we went back up one more time. So three sets, one way, other way, other way. Yeah. And the thing with Brion is his pace. So you might be getting... maybe 60 seconds rest between each sequence, but then there's three of us, so we're spotting each other. So like, I'm spotting Jackson, I'm still doing lateral raises, you know? And I mean, by this point, I am in full blown having... the deep dark pep talk conversations with myself, like you cannot quit under this, in this environment. Like you have to find a way, you have to dig deep. I'm like battling the demons in my head, doing fucking lateral raises, you know? Yep. There's like no way you had a 45 on each side for the Smith machine. You must've had like 25s or less, right? No, the first set was 20 kilo plates, so a 45, right? Second set was 25. Sorry, a 20. So the second we effectively went 135, 185, 225. Yeah. I got, I think nine reps at the 225 and then they carried me through like 14 and then we did the strip, the strip to. strong, dude. feel like, I mean, you guys must be way stronger than me. I don't know if I could get more than like 10 reps with a 45 on each side. And that was the kicker. Breon's strength at consistent 20 rep efforts was absurd. um For example, let's let me think of an example. When I trained, this was another, a different session. We trained chest. We were doing an incline dumbbell uh fly and then would superset with a press, right? I do that all the time. And this was the, and he doesn't, didn't really tell us what the training session was going to be. He's like, right, we're doing this. So we started with, I'm having a really hard time remembering maybe like a 36 KG. So that's, I don't know, like, yeah, something like that. So I'm like, okay, I get, I get the 20 and then I go into the press and I get like four. But here's the thing, Breon's doing the 20 and then he'll get like 15 on the superset press. So I'm like, okay, I do that pretty good. And then he goes to like the 40s from the 36 to the 40s. I'm like, oh fuck, we're going up in weight. And he gets another like 20 and then like 12. getting 20 flies at that kind of weight. Like, those are really strong numbers. I know, and then he went up again and still got 20. I got like seven, right? And then they carry me through like 10 and then basically carry my arms through like five of the presses. Yeah, so it's not like, yes, you're doing 20 rep sets, but you're really doing like an eight to 12 rep set with a shit ton of four strips. I was. Breon was doing 20s. Yes. What about on the lateral raises? what kind of weight, like for set of 20, you're using like the 20s or like? we started with the for with the lateral raises. We 7.5 kg sets like 16 17. Yeah. And then we went to 12s. And it's just I have one every 26 pounds. And then 14 and 16. Okay. Yeah. So you finished it like 35 or 36. Is there something like that? was a ton of assisted reps and stuff. but I mean, that's also after all that Smith machine press and 11 sets of lateral raises. So I mean, the fatigue level had to be super high, but those numbers are much more in line with what I would have expected them to be because they're in line with like what I would use. Those Smith machine numbers are insane. I throwing 225 on a Smith machine overhead press is like, that's some real man weight. Like I don't even know if I could do a single rep at that weight. That one they were much stronger than me on but to be fair the the the different levels even just testosterone right like I'm on 140 milligrams of testosterone even if I was at 250 that is a meaningful difference in impress in impressing strength in strength output in what is still considered a very not large amount of testosterone at 250 for bodybuilding standards um So that lateral delt raise and then sequence and then we went into a superset of neutral grip dumbbell front raises for 20 and then we supersetted that with a bent over kind of rear delt like fly kind of shrug thing. The rear delt fly shrug thing I did okay with the front raises were agony. And the thing that was wild is I mentioned in the episode or earlier in this episode, my delts are a lagging body part. And even with a decent, you know, cable lateral delt, I get a stimulus, but I don't get like a big pump like I can get with my triceps or quads or something. my entire like upper arm to neck was completely blown up. I literally had the pump of the gods in traps, upperts, everything. And it was very, very eye opening because I hadn't, I didn't have a stimulus like that ever, ever. And it was again, that pace. So we did that three sets of 20 with that. it's whatever, when you start failing, someone comes in and gets you to 20. We did that. And then we did this very interesting super set of, again, dumbbells. I don't even know what to call some of these things. It was a trap focused high pull where you would externally rotate at the shoulder. Yep. Yep. it's super, super trap. like really like almost fists together, like really keep the dumbbells really close together. 20 sets of those. And then we supersetted that with regular dumbbell high pulls with a more, know, kind of not wide, but just like a traditional kind of standard. Yep. 20 sets, three sets of those. And by this time, this, I'm literally falling apart. can barely grab the dumbbells. My hands and forearms and everything are so completely blown out. And then we finished with three sets of 20 on the rear delt cable fly, Roshar rear delt machine fly with a double drop set on the final set. And I'm almost, I'm almost done. The kicker, three of us did that training session. 60 minutes. Yeah, I mean, that's a shit ton of sets in 60 minutes. So I'm gonna guess that Breon does not track his training, training in this manner, that he just simply shows up and trains. We were not tracking anything this week. I can't speak to how he normally is. um But potentially soon because Breon confirmed that he is doing his... He's competing in... I think potentially Korea in August. I forget exactly where, but he's making his 212 debut in August. And he's doing his prep at Undefeated. Which is f- fucking sick. It's insane. ah We have multiple Olympians, multiple doing their Olympia preps at Undefeated, which is so cool. Yeah. a part of you that feels like you wish you could still be in Bali a little bit? I had a very fleeting moment of that, it kind of sucks that it's all really coming together, like right as I leave. However, I'm... I like bodybuilding, right? I love training, but I love the path of who I'm becoming and the bigger things that are important to me, like a family and stuff like that. So a little bit, but not enough to actually like I get to see it. I get to talk to Jackson, you know, and knowing that I was given an opportunity and played a role in helping build and facilitate. This is enough for me. for sure. Okay. So do you think or has the training with Breon influenced your training style since? For bot, this is such a good question, I love it. For body parts that I don't connect with well, lateral delts, anterior delts, and upper back, I'm going to experiment with something new to see if I can get that stimulus that I have not been able to generate, excuse me, the man, using the manner of training that I normally use for my other body parts that I do connect well with. So does that mean that for like a delt or upper back focus thing, you could be in theory doing like 20 to 40 sets with short rest and high reps? Delts, yes, upper back probably, maybe not 40 sets, but for the upper back, I'm definitely going to train at much higher rep ranges because I can less can take over because I mean, I just don't row a pan. Whatever way I row does not generate stimulus where I want it to go because which is evident by how far behind my upper back is relative to my lats and other body parts. um So yes, I am going to take that approach of running a lot higher volumes because then it's I feel Especially with lateral delts if you're using if I'm doing a set of eight something like that heavy there's a I can throw it right, but I can also kind of like, you know, lift it or do things. But if I'm doing a set of 20, I can, it's typically light enough that I can really focus on, okay, is that driving it sort of thing? So yeah, that's going to be my approach, at least in the interim, and then see if it's ends up being more effective. If I'm just a big dumb ass and can't train my lateral delts or upper back at all, and, and, and. Yeah, do you have any safeguards in place in your brain as far as like how to not be a little bitch about the pain that comes with doing high reps when you don't have someone doing forced reps for you or anything like that? Fortunately, that is, I would say something that I'm good at. go, I go, I kind of go searching for that. It's more often than not. I have the opposite problem of don't train too hard, Aaron. We got, we got to go to fucking Costco and shit afterwards. And Jamie's going to get pissed if you're in the car, fucking sick because you were training, taking leg press sets to failure when you didn't need to be like, think with delts, doing a 20 rep set of delts over and over and over again, like I also think I'm pretty good at like going to the pain cave, but there's a point where like you're at 18 and you're like, yeah, that's failure. But like with gun to your head, you could probably get five more, you know, type thing. Yeah, so what I've kind of been doing is I and again, I'm only like three dealt sessions into this. So it's still pretty new. I go to my failure and then I go into like my partials and then I go into my my my cheater reps where I like use momentum, you know, uh but one thing that I like is the having that hard number. is a bit, it's it's it's, it's black or white. You're at 20 reps, so you're not. So it removes that ambiguity of, can I do some more? Should I, you know, am I really at failure? When do I stop that? That I do like. And then if it is easy, I go up to the next set of dumbbells for the, for the next set sort of thing. Exactly. Yeah. was kind of where I was going with that. It's the safeguards in place. What I was kind of getting at was cheat reps and partials. And that's exactly what you said you were doing. So I think that that's the same that I would take is like, yeah, I mean, you've basically nailed the same approach I would have done given that situation. So curious to see how it goes. Are you, I mean, you're a tracker. You like to track your stuff, but there is a point where like when you're doing sets of 20 and you're doing four straps and partials and like all this stuff, like how do you go about accounting for the accuracy of things week to week? What I think I'm going to do is have certain exercises that I try to progress normally, and then I'll have certain sequences that are literally just there to implement volume and stimulus. Yeah. Great. That's awesome. I love that. I think that is a, that's a really solid approach. Yeah, especially with with again those weaker body parts because for example like the upper back, it's a slippery slope because if I if I want to just purely chase, you know, a progressive overload, I can start to compensate if I arch my back a little bit more. I'm a little bit more leveraged in those sorts of things. So certain things I'm going to exercises that are pretty safe, you know, for example, like a T bar. I can't really manipulate too much. say, hey, I round my spoon, my chest a little bit to stay in that position. That's pretty well regarded, but something like a cable row, you can start leaning back a little bit more. So some of those, think I'm just going to, those are going be my pure stimulus based exercises. And then I'll have my other ones where I do chase a more traditional progressive overload approach. with the other pros, like how do I really train? I think I train hard, but for example, I thought I trained hard and then that Breon session where Jackson and myself are literally falling apart, you know, in the depths of our demons in our heads to keep going. I was like, how do I stack up with the other ones? So I had the opportunity of... uh captaining two sessions where I led the group picked the exercises were doing those sorts of things. So one of them was back and one of them was legs um and the leg session. I was pretty pumped about people were quitting and stuff. So that's the flick. That's the one that really matters. just and yeah, yeah, I we had some gnarly leg extension stuff. And then we did a leg press supersetted with uh body weight, heel elevated, just body weight squats, right? And those ones were, it was fun. And then I wanted to add one other exercise, like a split squat, a Bulgarian split squat. And they were both like, nah, we're done. They can't hang. Yeah. So that one was, it's just always that fear that I'm getting older. I, I, when does it start to, when do I start to lose that edge sort of thing? So I mean, don't get me wrong. I think it's coming, but it's, I might have another two years or so before. uh got longer than that, buddy. I think you have 20 years as long as you stay as long as you stay engaged and like care about it. I don't see a reason why it would stop. I did remember my question. So when you're doing these super high rep sets for upper back and delts and stuff, I would assume that these are more like constant tension reps and a faster rep speed than you would be doing if you were doing like an eight RM on a pull down. Like you're gonna pause at the stretch, you're gonna like, you know, a little slower eccentric speed. On these 20 reps sets, I'm sensing it's a faster rep cadence, likely staying in the range of stimulus, not necessarily fully losing tension at any point of the movement. That is a very good question and yes, for the majority of them, that is the case. Breon also liked for one exercise, I don't think, no, we did it on the rear delt flies. where he will do one set is a normal straight set, normal kind of piston style cadence. Another set you hold the peak contraction for a one count, a two count. And then on the third set is controlled slow eccentrics, which again, he starts adding these things and my 20 turns into 12 and then they're carrying me through it. Not for Brian. Yeah, yeah. Does he do cardio? Um, he did not while we were there, but he was also very, big on ice bath and cold plunge every, sorry, ice bath and hot bath every day after training. So not so worried about the hypertrophy blunting of X. I think there's, there's a, what's there's, what's that statement? There's like rules apply to thee, but not to me. That's, that's, that's Brianne. I mean, it was he, yeah. I mean, in his age and just like the level of like energy, you know how people have that life energy where like children have that life energy where they can just go and that's him. all day long was just like full of energy, 10 out of 10 mood, ready to go, ready to train. That's just him. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, we all uh strive for that. yeah, yeah. So that was training parts of Pro Camp. The only other one, we went to a waterfall up in like the middle of Bali. And there's, go, that's like, not really a hike. You do like a nature walk down to the waterfalls and you see them. And then there's cliff jumping at this one. So they had a, everyone starts at the five meter cliff jump. And that's five meters is like 15 feet, know, so, we all did that. But it was a little bit of, you know, when you're young, you know, like if you're Bryson's age, right? These sorts of things are about as good as life can get, like a big rock to jump off into the water. You know, when you're in your late thirties or forties, you're thinking like, man, what happens if I roll an ankle as I'm jumping? What happens if I hit the rocks? You know, like, yeah, it's like, what happens if I swallow too much water? And you know, like it's just, Responsibility and that age kind of related fear creeps in. And then there's me, I don't swim very well. I can swim for about 20 seconds, but it's like my rate of oxygen consumption to swim skyrockets. So I'm incredibly inefficient. So I got about 20 seconds and I'm okay. but I haven't done anything since I've been so much heavier. Like I'm used to jumping in the water at about 190, maybe 200 pounds. Now I'm 230. How much more does that carry me under the water in these sorts of things? So the 15 or the five meter we do, I'm happy with that. I swallow a little bit of water naturally, but I'm okay. And then we're like walking over, there's this middle one that's 10 meters. And the guide's like, ah, you guys are too big. The water's not deep enough. So we're not gonna do this one, but I'll show you guys the big one. So I'm like, all right, we'll walk to the big one. Like I'm not fucking doing that. So we get to the big one. He's like, this one's 15 meters. And like, it's up there. 15 meters is, yeah, it's like 49 feet, something like that. And I'm like, yeah, there's no way. I'm like, I'm not doing this one. Like no way. Immediately Jackson jumps off of it. And I'm like, of course he does. But Jackson's a psychopath. So like, you can't really compare that. And then the one other guy, Brianne's one of Brianne's uh good friends, Fran was with us. He jumps and I'm I'm starting to get that itch, like that pit in my stomach. Like my soul wants to jump, but the responsible errands are, dude, if you get fucking hurt, you're moving next week. Jenny's going to get so mad at you. You have nothing left to prove. There's nothing to gain by doing this jump except some little battle with it, the child that lives inside of you. So I'm like thinking about it, but I really don't want to do it. I'm like, my legs are shaking. Like they're actually shaking. I feel my heart like pounding and racing. And then one of the girls jumps and there's 15 of us, right? And this girl, uh Keke jumps and I'm like, ah, god damn it. And I'm thinking about it and I'm like kind of looking at the ledge that you run off from and then I like look up and Jackson's just like, dead staring me in my eyes and he like nudges to the cliff and I'm like, ah, fuck. So I, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I'm like, oh my God, okay. So I get up there and run and jump and I'm very happy I did it, but it was, I'm like, why? Why can't I just let these things go? know, like, when is it gonna happen? But it was, it was a lot of fun, right? Just that, but it was, I was also under the water very long. Very, very long. So that extra like, it had to be the biggest one I've ever done. you hit it? That's was gonna ask, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the guide, I mean, it's body. So these things are so the whole thing of like risk and fear that we perceive in the United States is completely different. And Bolly, these guys are just it's just different. So the guides, okay, when you jump. You got to put your arms at your side because if not you dislocate your shoulder and I was like sweet thanks okay look I got it got it uh but it was I'm glad I did it but it was yeah definitely I think the biggest one I've ever done but I had a battle. fears is so rewarding, like such self validation. that and how I was explaining to someone is like after like popping up out of the water you know and then like swimming over to the edge you get that that that what's the word exhilaration is that the word or whatever it's like you feel you you actually feel alive like your heart's pumping and like I'm like You don't get those feelings too often now in this day and age, but I felt like alive and I was happy I did it, but fucking hell was a battle in my mind to actually do it. Yeah. And I think that was it. That was largely Pro Camp. one of the things I will say, I know I had to express this on the podcast. I had been pretty over Bali at the time and just really, really, really ready to look for and ready to make this move. But seeing, you know, people come in and there was one other American. I think so. I think only one, but. her first time in Bali and you know being on the scooters and stuff it really made me kind of appreciate it because you take things for granted and then you kind of forget the reasons that you came here in the first place and things like that so it really did make me appreciate a really special chapter in my life and this little tiny you know risk that Jenny and I took and what it turned into with the things that we've built there and the opportunities I've been provided and stuff because of it and it was a very kind of good closing chapter because I was able to close it on a really high note of appreciation and then, you know, going to the gym for the final session and stuff and walking up the stairs and seeing what it's become and all the people there and it's been very rewarding where, you know, when you're in the middle of it, in the depths of it, it seems just like hell and why the fuck did I do this and all these things, but it was a very, very nice closing of things on a good spot. Well, I think the eight years or whatever that you guys did living that nomadic lifestyle was so cool that you actually did it because there's almost no other time in your life that you could have done it. Albeit maybe like after the kids are off to college and you guys are retired in the future or whatever. But like you'll talk about it and you'll reference it and it'll be like a profound experience from your life for years to come. mean, Kim and I spent three months in Costa Rica when Bryson was one. and we talk about that shit all the time. It's so relevant in how we are what we are and why we are where we are. Yeah, I just think it's so cool that you guys got to do that and I know that if I had been in a similar situation and hadn't had kids when I did, I think I could have seen myself doing something similar. Yeah, it really can be at the very least. You gain so much perspective and appreciation and that's one of the things I'm really fortunately, I've been consistent with my journal, which I have talked about on here. I think a while back, but I did that day one of prep. I started a daily journal and I've done it every single since well over a year later now. um And I just tried to remind myself of the little things like right now coming here, you know, we go to the mailbox because it's like the mailbox kind of at the front of the street, you know, and then you walk in and you just see these giant mountains in the background and I feel so grateful and I really just I'm doing my best not to take it for granted, not to take Amazon for granted, going to the grocery store, having none of the none of the meat smells bad. Everything's always in stock. You know, these niceties that feel like a 10 out of 10 right now. I really want to do my my best to keep them feeling like a 10 out of 10 and it not just be fucking Tuesday anymore. So. Yeah, dude, I love that. Let me know how long you can keep that going for. I think you can go at least six months. Yeah. All right, good stuff, man. Well, next week, let's do a Q &A. We haven't done one in a while. See what all the people want. And uh we'll get moving on a more consistent schedule from there. Perfect. Happy to be back. Happy to chat with you, Brian. As always, guys, any questions, anything, just drop us a comment underneath and we'll talk to you next week.