What is going on guys? Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to another episode of Eat, Train, Prosper. Today's episode is episode 173, which is titled From Passion to Profession, Becoming a Coach. So this stems from actually episode 172, which was our October Instagram Q &A. Someone asked about how we got into the space and how we progressed also. And it was really just way too big of a question for a Q &A. So we're exploding it out into our own episode. think what's also a little bit unique about us is we have kind of different business structures and then have come into it from where we are from kind of different angles. And Brian, I know, has a lot of insight that he can share that I do not think often gets covered with people like myself, who I would say it's more common of the way that I have kind of started. And Brian has a little bit more of a unique. approach to where he's gotten now and I think there's a lot of insight that he will be able to provide. as always, Brian, can you kick us off with some updates, Brian, it looks like your microphone is already in use. I cannot hear you. Do you have any other applications opened? Maybe just hop out and then come back in and we'll see what can happen there. All right, we're back. Yeah, so I guess we skipped updates last week, but not too many today. Basically two updates for me, two bigger ones, smaller one here to finish up. starting out, we're basically at the end of bike season and this was inevitable. There was no way that it was going to stay warm forever. so yesterday was probably the final day in the seventies. Not that it has to be in the seventies to go biking, but there's something. that I truly enjoy about getting out there and not having to worry about bundling up, wearing specific clothes, and just being warm the entire time. And so yesterday was probably the final day of that. When I look at the 10 day forecast now, it's all 50s and like a little bit of maybe low 60s. Still great weather. I'm gonna try to bike as much as I can. But I think that what this has symbolized for me being the last 70 degree day in the end of October, is that it's sort of time to make that switch, if you want to call it that, where the priority goes from being cardio to back to being weights with still a focus on cardio tangentially. And in that process, what I've decided to do is actually take my two times a week full body training program and turn it into a three times a week upper lower. So essentially we're taking more or less the same amount of volume that I was doing in the two times a week full body, which was already super low. and we're gonna go upper, lower, upper on one week and then the next week we're gonna go lower, upper, lower. The volume is the same, but what this does is it opens up a lot of opportunity for me to explore additional exercise selection. Because the way that the full body program was organized is that I would do either quads or hamstrings on one of the full body days. Now I have a lower body day where I can hit both a quad and a hamstring movement. And that's my plan. Basically have one movement for each. So like today, which is my first lower body day on the program, I have the hack squat machine and leg curls, and then one set of back rack lunges. So that's going to be like one set of additional volume, so to speak in that before I would just be doing two exercises in a given week for lower body. Now I'll do two plus one set. of lunges. Similarly, it's opened up a little bit of opportunity for me to add in, I think, an additional set or two of arm work and dealt work. So the chest and the back volume remains the same from how it was in the full body program with a little bit more of the kind of dealt and arm stuff. Still super abbreviated. In fact, all of the days are just A, B, and C. There's not even a part D, which there used to be in the full body structure. So sessions should be 45 minutes or less, I would guess. And the main reason I think that I'm, two main reasons that I make this change. One is that it gives me an opportunity to an extra day of training. And since I'm not going to be out cardio-ing these one to two hour long zone two sessions anymore, I'm cool allocating a bit more of my days of time to doing weights instead of cardio as the main focus. And then secondarily, I just love how it opens up the opportunity to explore different movement variations. Another one I'm getting is the weighted hip extension. So that wasn't in there prior and a leg extension. So I've got like two new leg movements, a few new upper body movements. and, the other thing I was going to talk about is my progression style, which I've been such a huge fan of. I briefly discussed it in the Q and A last week, but one of the, favorite things to do recently has been to find a weight over the course of a cycle. like take my last eight week cycle of full body and build up to essentially a seven or eight RM in a number of different movements. And then when I start this new cycle now with any of the movements that are the same, I'm going to take that seven to eight RM weight and I'm going to do three by five. So that first set you're looking at, you know, three RIR or something like that. But by the time you get down to the final set, it's two, one, zero to one, depending on the movement. And so I really love this progression style where you build up to a peak, but you keep the volume nice and low, and then you add a little bit of volume, but you work a little bit less hard. And I've used this throughout my life as well with a ton of success. So for anybody like the guy in the question asker in the last episode who was asking about how he can't gain strength anymore, and I provided a pretty good framework on how one could go about doing that. This is kind of another option of a way that you can kind of work forward and then work backward. And ultimately, that's the message, I think, and how to gain strength over time is it you have to you can't just progressively move forward forever. It has to be a process of going forward and backward. And anyway, I digress. But that is that's my plan as we're kind of wrapping up with bike season, moving into a bit more focus on the weights and just really thrilled with the way bike season went overall, the the metrics that I was able to achieve, the performances, the duration. huge, huge success. So, excited moving forward here, going to stick with rowing, running, actually running. I'm hoping to be my primary focus now, because I just cannot like sitting on the rower is so monotonous to me now. I tried to do it the other day and I made it 10 minutes. so if I, if I can, I'm going to try to run, I'm going to bike when I can, like right now I'm talking about, 70 degrees, 65 degrees, like blah, blah. When I'm in the desolate heart of winter, what I've found is that 45 and sunny is an acceptable biking day. And so we'll see how many 45 and sunny days I can get out there where I'm willing to go out and bike. But anyways, didn't mean to take all this time. I'm gonna pass it over to Aaron for updates as well. Biggest update for me is I head to the United States tomorrow. So a little bit of an unexpected trip. I have a family member who's unfortunately reaching the end of his life and I'm going to go say goodbye in person as opposed to going to a funeral in however many time. So a little bit unexpected in a very kind of rushed trip for me. So that is that's happening. It's been four years I think since I've been back to my hometown where I grew up. So I'll get to see. mean, there's good in it. Like I'm going to spend a couple nights with my brother, which I think is is cool now. Like now that we're all old enough, he has like an apartment and stuff. We can do a lot of these things. Like when when I really moved away, he was still a child effectively. So it's cool that being able to do some of these things instead of just like getting an Airbnb or whatever, I'm going to crash with him for a little bit just to hang out and see him. I bought something that really frustrates me is like trying to live my life when I go other places. And it's just like, you know, like sourcing food and stuff pisses me off. So I just went to mega fit meals and I literally just bought a bunch of meals and ship them to my dad's house. And I'm like, I'm not fucking around with this. I bought like three meals. I'm just going to like hot lap them and eat like two or three per day. And I'm like, I'm not dealing with a lot of that. So I'm excited that and get to see some people like, you know, one of my best friends has an entire family now. And like I've met. you know, one of his children wants. So I am excited to go do some of those things, the, it's the travel, man. It's just hard. It's really, really hard on me. The length of the flights in my knees get achy and stuff. And now being this big, like those flights are just not fun. And seeing if any of my clothes fit, which I don't really have. like, I only brought a handful of like two pants and. you know, one or two sweatshirts and I'm 30 pounds heavier than the last time I wore them. So who knows if they're going to fit. I'm probably going to look like a fool walking around and it's going to be a little bit cold. So who knows? We're going to find out over the next 48 hours though. That's for sure. So that's really the only update for me. That's very unfortunate about your family member. I'm sorry to hear that. How old is your brother now? He's nine years younger than me, so if I'm 36, he's 27. Cool, cool, he's a fully grown up adult. Dude, the travel thing, so relatable, especially for me, you know, just having gone to London. I don't know how much I lamented about this on the podcast, but I had really bad jet lag coming back from London. It was like, it was fine going there, but coming back was really bad. It lasted almost a full week of me waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to fall back asleep again. So I like fully relate and it makes me not wanna do that type of crazy time zone travel. so much because it really does like set you back for like a week. It's crazy. I don't remember this at all when I was younger. I used to travel to Europe all the time as a kid and it must just be the whole way that kids are just more resilient in every aspect of life. Whereas like now I eat a meal that doesn't sit well with me and I'm like, God, I shouldn't have done that. You know, and as a kid you just like get up and go play basketball and you're fine. You fuck off. So yeah, I don't know. It's just interesting and unfortunate. Yeah, yeah, I'm really just trying to stay positive about it, but I know it's the goal for some reason. Same thing going going from like Asia back to the US is brutal, but the return is not as bad. But I know like on Thursday when I get in, I'm going to be an absolute zombie for the first 24 hours. So it is what it is. from, how do you fly to the East coast? Do you go over the West coast or do you fly the other way? No, no, it depends like where you're where you're coming from. So I'll go from here to what am I flying? Korean Airlines, I'll go from here to South Korea and Seoul. The South Korean airport is arguably one of the best airports in the world. It's really, really cool. And then from Korea to New York. So I do not think I'll be flying over this trip. But sometimes you do depending on like where you're where your stopover is in those sorts of things. So then you come over Europe instead of coming over the United States. I cannot confidently say yes or no. I just haven't looked. just intrigued by it, because to me, looks like it would be almost, like in my brain, feels like it would be almost equidistant. just don't. Mm-hmm. Okay, cool. Well, let's jump into the topic. Yeah, so the question we have from last week to the phrase it explicitly is how did you become an online coach? Can you explain how you started and progressed in what I kind of thought would be good for this episode is kind of break it out into a few different sections in the sections that I have here. The idea. Getting the ball rolling. The do or die moment, right, which is typically where you kind of am I? Is this? Is this something that I'm going to continue to pursue even though I'm getting kicked in the nuts continuously right now, portion. Defining success, I think, is a really, really good part. And then any notable peaks or accomplishments for us looking back on. So I think we can have a good amount of fun and provide a ton of value here. So now with this first part, the idea, Brian, do you want to kick this one off or would you like me to? Sure. Yeah, I can talk about my story real quick and because I think it occurred chronologically before yours did. So I graduated college in 2006 and I had like an exercise science sports management degree and really wanted to work in that field. That was my passion. I spent the last six or seven years obsessed with fitness and coming out of school. All of my friends were doing these corporate government jobs making, I don't know, something in the sixties back then that was significant. And I, I was being offered like the low thirties maybe for, like assistant strength coach jobs and, other things like that, that were kind of what you did when you had a exercise science degree in those days. It wasn't quite as popular as it is now for people to just go into exercise science with the intention of becoming an a PhD and a researcher. Like that seems to be a very common path now where I almost wonder if I would have gone that path now, like being 15 years later, if I would have then pursued that PhD route. I guess we'll never know. But essentially, I ditched my passion at that point in 2006 and went to work a government corporate job as well, because I wanted to be able to make money and party with my friends and basically continue living college life. And that's what I did. I moved out to San Diego a year later, continued working a similar type job. And it wasn't until 2009 when my college roommate, Anders Varner, many of you guys may know him as the cohost of the barbell shrugged podcast, but he was my college roommate and he came out and moved to San Diego for what was supposed to be six months and ended up turning into 12 years or something. because we started CrossFit PB in 2010. And that was really the beginning of me getting into fitness, which dovetailed into a whole ton of other things and ultimately ended up getting me to where I am now. But it was really that pivotal moment in 2009 of Anders and I starting the gym together in early 2010 that propelled me to actually be in the fitness industry or else I could be continuing to work. dead end government corporate job somewhere. So that was the idea for me. And I'm sure we'll continue with the story as we go. Yeah, there's a little bit of like follow ups that I would like to kind of ask to so that we can kind of because you have this like history, you know, like by the time I got started from my standpoint, I would already say that you were like very, very successful at things. So with like the gyms open, right, you guys started this gym. But but you by the time I had entered the gym, everyone already had like really defined roles and you were already. really well established, at least from my standpoint, like, Brian is like the programming genius and wizard. And throughout my time, spent at PB and stuff that only like your skillset only exponentially, you know, got better from, from my standpoint, right? Obviously, you know, potentially a little bit biased. do really feel like you were really ahead of things. Like you had us periodizing our crossfit for performance, you know, in 2012 and 2013, like where people were just starting to get serious. So with some of that like moving, guess, you into a little bit of the getting the ball rolling section here, what were some of your thoughts or how did you, how could you kind of see into the future a little bit at that time of where you thought things were gonna Such a good question, man. Very thoughtful. I love it. Yeah, I'd always been obsessed with the training side of things more so than the nutrition that never interested me so much. I just was like, eat the food, gain the muscle training for me was was the thing. And so when Anders first moved out to San Diego, he was already doing CrossFit. He'd been doing it for three years at that point. Like he started probably the month I left to move to San Diego in 2006, 2007. He had started doing CrossFit. In fact, we had that funny moment right before I left. was like a week before I moved to San Diego where he was like, you gotta try this workout, Cindy, which is a 20 minute AMRAP of five pull-ups, 10 push-ups and 15 air squats. And he was like, there's no way that you can do 18 rounds of Cindy in 20 minutes. And I was like, stupid crossfit. Like, of course I can do push-ups, pull-ups and air squats. Like, obviously I can do that. And so we bet $20. and I'd never done a CrossFit workout before. And we go into the commercial gym and I'm sitting there, I'm doing strict pull-ups, I'm doing push-ups, I'm doing air squats, whatever. And I hit my 18 rounds in 20 minutes and he was like super impressed, handed me my 20 bucks and I move off to San Diego. And over the course of those three years where I was in San Diego, he was sending me workouts. Like he'd send me Fran and Grace, which was clean and jerks, 30 clean and jerks for time. He'd send me these workouts. And so my impression of CrossFit was that it was just conditioning. It was like, how fast can I move some sort of weight or body weight? And when he moved out to San Diego, he was like, dude, we need to start, like, you've got to go to a CrossFit gym. We got to do this CrossFit thing together. You're going to love it. And I had this perception that it was all conditioning. And I was like, no, I don't want to do just conditioning work. That's not how you get swole. And so I agreed that I would go do CrossFit with him, but I would treat it like my cardio, because I actually did structured cardio at that time. I would run. And so the plan was that I'd go to this gym with him and I would do my strength work first, which turned into like part a strength work. And then and then we would do the Metcon. And to me, this was like a great solution because I still got my like bodybuilding style work in. But I also got my conditioning in in a manner that was less boring than running. So I already had this bias kind of going into CrossFit that it needed more strength. And so when we first started the gym in 2010 and I began doing the programming, Andrews just kind of acquiesced that to me, probably because it was my passion, but also because he had the knack for the business side of things and the marketing and wanted to take that on as well. So we kind of ended up in our roles, both by where our skills lie, but also just by kind of where we fell naturally. I just started really getting into the programming side. I mean, I became obsessed with CrossFit in general. but I became obsessed with the strength side of CrossFit and then it introduced this new element of Olympic lifting, which was a whole new aspect of strength. It's like, I can lift really heavy weight, but only do it one to three times and it's skill-based. Like the whole thing was just so insanely cool for someone who was an ex-athlete trying to still harness some of that athleticism from youth. So I became obsessed with the programming side. Eventually to your point, I went to OPEX OPT training, which was like a two year program that I did in 2011 and 2012, where I would go back and forth from Arizona to have like hands on practicals and do these assessments, etc, etc. And that was the integration of this periodization model where everything was focused on energy systems. So you know, the anaerobic and the aerobic energy systems, and then the extremes of those like the very extreme anaerobic to the less extreme anaerobic and then the extreme aerobic to the less extreme aerobic. And so we were able to put together a plan of periodization to include these various aspects of the energy systems protocol throughout the year in a structured manner that allowed us to peak for what was the CrossFit Open or CrossFit regionals or whatever kind of our competitive area was. Wonderful. I think what what makes the most sense is for me to talk about, my idea a little bit and then we'll kind of revisit yours because I mean, you've really had these two phases, right? The gym, you exited from the gym, you know, and then you moved into the online space. And I think you have a lot of value to add in that regard as well. So for me, you know, for for the listeners, right, all of these like as Brian is talking about these years, I am just a patron. at Brian's gym, just a member at the gym. I worked my software job. I was a software engineer. And it was around I started that effectively at like 24, know, moving through the ranks when I'm around 27. I start. I start noticing that like how my peers in the gym are progressing. Like, for example, I won't name names here, but there was a member at the gym who would be there all the time with us. And then one day he was like, my job is sending me like sponsoring me to get like another degree. I don't remember if it was like an MBA or whatever the next thing he's like. So I have like night school now and I can't come to the gym anymore and just like gone like that stopped coming to the gym. And I remember thinking like I'd quit my fucking job if that was my offering like that. I would be like, no, I'm not. I'm not just not going to go to the gym. Like I would literally go find a different job if I was put in that situation. So that was like one that I noticed. And then as friends started to, you know, just change into their phases of life, take relationships more seriously, like move away. They stopped training. That was like kind of hard for me because I realized it like that just wasn't it. That wasn't an option for me. Like if it was like. If my girlfriend or you know that I didn't have at that time was like it's me or the gym. would be like fucking later, like right away later sort of thing. So it was just so, so, so important to me. Even now, though, that I'm like twenty seven and now supposed to be like moving into this next phase of life. And it was at that time that I'm sure you remember Rob Hammer, who would come in and do, you know, photos at the gym all the time. I was sitting down having a conversation with him. And he kind of just like laid it out because I mean for everyone listening like Rob Hammers, this amazing photographer, he's done all this really, really cool work, you know, all up and down California, a lot of cool projects all across the United States. And he's someone that I really, really do look up to for kind of getting me started in my entrepreneurial pursuits. And he kind of just told me he was like, what do you want to do? Like, I just don't see this you this software job thing like working out for you long time. Like you're so into the gym and what you guys do. Like, why don't you do something like that? And I had felt that way, but I was really scared, like really, really scared. But the fact that other people could see it was I was like, OK, other people can kind of know or can see it. I will start keeping my eyes open sort of thing. And at this time, our good friend Jen Ryan had already moved into the nutrition coaching space and I was helping her with some aspects of her business around like technology and different things like that. And we started spending a lot more time together. And I just got to see a lot of like her applications coming in for people reaching out to her and stuff. And I had assumed that because people were so into CrossFit that they also had to be decently educated in nutrition. And that was not the case. So I started to kind of see gaps and I had also had some, excuse me, interest in inkling of doing more, doing things different. My initial thought was like writing programming. then I was like, but No one's going to come to me for programming because they have Brian, right? And everyone will just go to. Why would someone get programming for me when Brian is right here and he's literally 100 times better at it than me? But what I kind of noticed is outside of bodybuilding preps, there was very, very few males doing nutrition. was everyone I knew was a woman doing it. So and for me, the nutrition was pretty eye opening because after that Achilles injury and I had a lot of time on my hands, I read some nutrition books and I was like, wow. I know nothing about nutrition. You know, like there's so much more here. So that was what how I got started of the idea. And then the beginning, I remember being really scared about making that first Instagram post that I was like now doing these sorts of things. I remember like I vividly remember I am terrified. And of course, all of like, four fucking people look at it or something like that. But I remember being like very, very concerned about it. And then the first the first clients, you know, getting that ball rolling or friends like one of my friends in San Diego was one of my first clients. Actually, my friends that I'm going to go home and see one of my best friends that I grew up with. His wife was probably like my second or third client. And that's how it starts. It's like a couple of family members and some friends. And then it just gets, you know, very slowly rolling from that point as you start to test some of your techniques and newly learned skill sets. So that was getting the ball rolling for me. How long did you do both jobs? Probably about a year and a half. Maybe a little bit less. we did the gym and I worked our corporate job at the same time for like, I want to say eight or nine months when we first started the gym before we felt confident enough to say, okay, it's growing. Like we're still not making a ton of money, but it's growing. So we're willing to quit our day jobs and focus on that exclusively. And so I think when I have people DM me, when people ask me about this journey and how it went, That's one of the biggest pieces of advice that I give them is make sure that you still have something that you're holding onto because I mean, I guess the argument could be made that if you do that, then you're still like, maybe you're not giving a hundred percent to the other pursuit because you're still like half in on this other one. But I kind of think the opposite. I think that by still keeping one foot in on the job that's actually paying you money that it allows you to. build up the other one more confidently and with less risk associated, which allows you to do a better job and be more proficient with the work that you put out there. So I would be on the side for sure of saying, keep the income source coming in that you have and then use your leisure time on the outside to build up the second business until you feel like it's big enough for you to succeed. I think that is important. Fortunately, like I had Jenny for for all listeners are probably familiar at this point my fiance Jenny the nutritionist We did it, you know effectively together at the same time different businesses sort of thing So I did definitely did have that support We had planned it I kind of knew when my exit was gonna be it was gonna be you know this month it was January 2019 and Probably in February of the year before we started kind of planning that exit And I kind of knew it was coming so I could the I knew the I knew, you know, the wick was only X, you know, number of months long. So it wasn't I had that end date. And I think that's important because for a lot of people, you find your yourself kind of halfway in, halfway out and you're living your old life with trying to start this like new life. And like you face it like life, like everyone's life is full. So when you're trying to put this like new part time job into it, I have found a numerous people that can't really quite make that jump because it's that what's supposed to just be an income lifeline they treat as like a comfort zone sort of thing. And they don't want to give up some of the life luxuries like canceling the subscriptions or the things that you're wasting money on. And I know personally, knowing myself, I would not have been able to do. make it over that bridge period if I hadn't, you effectively burn the ships per se. That you also waited a long time, which I think is unique because when you tore your Achilles, that was 2013, 14, like we were still at the Garnet, the original Garnet location. So if it wasn't like that was when you started reading and being like, there's so much nutrition out there, but it wasn't until 2019, six years later, five and a half years later that you actually for sure cut all ties and became a nutrition coach. So I just think that that's so interesting in the grand scheme of things and looking at this journey is that when this idea manifested inside of you, It was like 2014 and five years later, you're suddenly doing it. it's not like for anyone listening, like you're trying to do this for yourself. Man, if you're a 20 year old kid, five years is a quarter of your life. That seems astronomical to think about committing to something before you actually start it. So I would just say that like, you know, be ready to spend more time because it's okay. It doesn't have to happen immediately. Yeah, and I think that's the hard thing is, especially in this day and age with social media and stuff, is you see these like overnight successes and stuff. I mean, granted, they are out there, but I do think they're pretty rare and by no means is it the norm. Okay, so let's transition a little bit and or just to kind of bring up the speed. So you had the gym, you know, eventually things things just run their course and you guys move on from the gym and you get into the online space. If I remember correctly, Brian, sorry, go ahead. Well, I think it's important to note that me getting into the online space didn't happen after the gym. That's when I went fully online after closing the gym down, but I had the extreme luck of doing online one-on-one coaching starting in 2011. So this is really what I attribute a lot of my luck, if you want to put it that way, know, preparation meets opportunity. But in 2011, I began coaching two individual CrossFit athletes who were coming up in the social media world, you could say. Carly and Ryan Fisher, our buddy. I began coaching these two to the CrossFit regionals level or to the games was the goal. In 2011, and as their social media following grew and they would tag me post about the work that we were doing together, I had my one-on-one coaching client roster grow as well. And so by the time we hit 2013 ish, I had a full 30 plus one-on-one coaching roster and I was already establishing myself into online coaching well before online coaching was really even a thing. Yeah. So I'll just, I'll just leave it there. And if you have any questions on that, or we can progress into kind of me leaving the gym. I mean, we can we can kind of make it make it a little bit short. I had, know, in full transparency, I had completely forgotten that you had that now. I guess while we're here, what kind of prompted you to roll down your coaching in that capacity to, you know, a smaller amount and then however what you ended up doing? Yeah, well, actually, the the online coaching roster dwindled itself. Unfortunately, I maintained 30 plus people and we had bees crew. was like this whole thing. It was a hashtag on on Instagram, you know, hashtag bees crew is like 79 people to regionals and two people to the CrossFit Games. And like there was this whole thing around it, this whole air of of expertise and professionalism and all of that. then as the gym began to decline in 2000, 16. I began losing the love of the CrossFit and in the losing of the passion for this methodology, I began moving more into the hypertrophy bodybuilding space and in doing so, I stopped enjoying coaching the CrossFit athlete as well. And so in those years between 2016 and 17, I was dep- parting CrossFit, which had been my identity for six or seven years and moving into a more physique, hypertrophy focused realm, but not ready to leave a lot of the things that still I identified with in the CrossFit space, such as Olympic lifting, some of the gymnastics movements and stuff like that, but primarily Olympic lifting, I think. And so it was this structure of events that all occurred in that 2016, 17 timeframe that where I decided to create evolved training systems, which was at the time, just a one program online subscription program that was a hybrid of sorts, not hybrid training like we have today where we're doing cardio and we're doing bodybuilding, but more hybrid of like bodybuilding plus CrossFit. And so In that program, we did Olympic lifting. We did some like kipping gymnastics, but not a ton. We did some metabolic conditioning and we did a bunch of bodybuilding. And that was kind of my version of what I needed to do for me personally as I was departing CrossFit to kind of slowly break the ties instead of like ripping the bandaid off. And that program resonated with a lot of people. So there's me, my one-on-one client. database is dwindling and I'm actually like kind of financially stressed because the gym isn't doing very well. Anders and I are at odds with each other as far as like what direction we want to take the gym, which eventually ended up in us selling the gym in 2016, I believe the end of 2016 and, and departing as partners as well. So I had that going on. And then I have this dwindling client list. I'm not making a bunch of money. but I create this hybrid program and begin this subscription service. And that was the beginning of a whole new section of my life, which I think, you know, we can get into here, but, maybe take you to that precipice as well. Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I remember those days and it honestly, it hurt me to watch because in 2013, 2014, probably 2015 too, like that gym was everything in my life. Like my friendships where I met Jenny, everything and watching that and you guys like, you know, the pressures and stuff start to fall apart a little bit. Like it was hard and I... I remember exiting very poorly and I just like, I was waiting for you, I remember one week and I think you were on like vacation or whatever and my membership was like up and I just like went to a powerlifting gym and it was around the time the cell and stuff was happening but I do remember that being like, it felt like this amazing chapter of my life was like closing and I did feel pretty beat up about it. Yeah, I it felt the same for me too, man. Like it was like a family. mean, what we created there over the course of those six years was something that I'm gonna hold dear to my heart for my entire life. I mean, those are some of the best memories that I've had. Like it felt like being on a sports team in high school, but continued throughout my 20s and early 30s. And it was just amazing. Like I couldn't have asked for a better way to spend those years. That's a really good way to put it. did feel like that. It felt like being on a sports team sort of thing. OK, so the kind of thing that I have here is the do or die moment. So I quit. I quit my job January 2020. Sorry, January 2019. Start traveling. Jenny and I moved over to Asia because I mean, fortunately, we were kind of intelligent like, listen, we live in Southern California. It's incredibly expensive. Our income just dramatically reduced. we're gonna go somewhere where we can live more less, live less expensively while we continue to scale these things up and generate some new experiences. So that's 2019. I do very poorly my first year in business. I remember I made $17,000 my first year in business, right? It's not good at all. And I was the epitome of like, I'm not I'm not prepared enough. I need to keep like redoing my website and getting this other certification like all of these things that felt like work, but they were non revenue generating activities right where I only had like seven clients or something like that. But I was like, I'm not I need to do this and this so that I can like do this launch and it was really just like I was just didn't want to put myself out there is really what it was. So that's 2019 2020 rolls around in the pandemic. is just about starting. We're living in Columbia and literally I remember because I did a launch in January and I did my second launch in March and like I'm putting everything into this second launch and I'm like things are gonna start. This is my third round of my group coaching kind of program that I used to have and I'm like I'm telling myself this is it. It's gonna catch on like things are gonna turn around and it's not and I'm getting a little bit scared. I kind of glossed over but Sometime in 2019, we went back to the States briefly and I sold my truck because I was running out of money. So I sold my truck for like 10K and I fucking loved that truck. And that was like, it extended my lifeline a little bit. And in January, in that 2020, things are not working, right? And I remember having like my do or die moment is like, I'm effectively like almost in tears and we're in Columbia and it's literally like the week before the pandemic. And like, I have like three clients in this new program. was expecting. I think I said like I wanted you like 20 and I thought I was going to get 20 and I get like four or something and I'm like stressed out to the fucking max and then the pandemic hits so things kind of settle down and then fortunately for me as much as I hate to say it the pandemic was wonderful for me. It gave me focus and I was getting so much work done and then because people were at home and not out. you know, socializing things that clients just started coming through. So like the start of the pandemic was really when my business really started improving a lot. And it continued like to thrive, like through the pandemic and stuff. And I was really fortunate because a lot of people were scrambling to get online and I was already fully established and stuff online. I had all my systems in place and stuff. So that was like kind of the do or die moment for me. And then I remember like feeling, OK, we have this Emotional or not emotional economical downturn and stuff and I'm doing really well And that was like the thing that first gave me like a bit of confidence. Like I think I can figure this out long term So that was kind of that like do-or-die moment for myself Yeah, that's very resonates with me because on a few levels, the pandemic also, I feel awful saying it sometimes, but it was good for me as well. And I'll get into that when we do when I when I get further and I'll discuss why that was the case. I don't know if I realized fully in your situation that that it was that dire. Like I knew you sold your truck. didn't know that I, the way it was framed to me at the time was that it was because you were going to be international and you didn't need it anyways. So I mean, of course, you know, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then I remember you being in Columbia and they had a massive shutdown or lockdown where you couldn't even leave your apartment. Right. And so you were like doing steps, just trying to walk back and forth, like wall to wall in your apartment, just to get, I don't know, 5,000 steps a day or something like that. Exactly. That was wild. And I was here in Boulder where we were allowed to go outside as much as we wanted. So I think in that way, like I was averaging 15,000 steps a day. I'm like, shit, I'm just going to get outside and like, you know, can't, can't hold me down. so as far as like a do or die moment, I guess I, I both have a lot of them and none of them at the same time. Like yes, starting the CrossFit gym, a do or die moment, selling the CrossFit gym, probably a do or die moment. Starting Evolve Training Systems, very important moment. One of the things that Starting Evolve Training Systems did for me was it introduced me to Lori, who is my business partner at Paragon. And she actually was a one-on-one client of mine when I was running Evolved. And so was training her on similar programming to Evolved, which was that hybrid style at the time of CrossFit plus bodybuilding. But she was having a one-on-one version of that. and she was sending people to the evolve program. So she had this growing social media account and she was like, you gotta try evolve training systems. This training style is crazy. If you feel like, you know, you're falling out of love with CrossFit, but you still miss a lot of these things, you know, give this program a try program brew. Very cool. Lori saw a business opportunity as well and was like, well, why don't we take this programming style, which was so unique at the time and all handle marketing and nutrition. You handle training, programming, education, all that stuff. And we'll have Steve, who was our third business partner at the time, he'll do all of the finance and management and kind of oversight stuff. So we started Paragon together. And if anything, that was probably like the biggest do or die moment for me. Because like, I mean, in retrospect, like who knows how I would have grown evolved if I hadn't met Laurie, but for sure having met Laurie and growing Paragon was a huge success for us. And it really became a massive success during the beginning of the pandemic. And I'll take a bit of credit for that. In that the day the pandemic hit where the world shut down, like I think it was March 13, there's something along those lines. I sat down in a chair and spent like six straight hours on a computer writing a ton of dumbbell only programs. I wrote like an entire 12 week dumbbell physique cycle. I wrote a like dumbbell rings cycle. So I was like, assuming I was like, what could people have in their house that they could use to work out right now? Okay, they might have dumbbells, they might have rings or like a TRX system. How can I create a bunch of different programs that combine things that people might have available with them? And I cranked this out in like under a week. So by March, I don't know, 18th or 20th, or something like that, I had like three or four different dumbbell at home program offerings. And then Lori, made them look pretty, put them in Canva, put them out to the world, added them to our subscription model, whatever it is, and literally like insane flood of members because people were just at home and didn't know what to do for their fitness. And we were providing them a solution before anyone else was providing them a solution. And so I still credit those moments in March of 2020 as being a huge accelerant for what we were doing in our program. And don't know if I'd be, you know, exactly where I am today had it not been for the quick thinking on the spot in that moment of trying to find a solution for people. So yeah, I don't know if you have anything to add there. What's really crazy is, you know, kind of similar timelines for us in, you know, your most recent business. It's really not that long ago. You know, it's like, is it even four years? 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023? Yeah, so it's like four, four and a half years. But it feels like a life a lifetime ago, you know, where I look into my I look back into like the eight years I spent as a software engineer almost eight years. It didn't feel like two lifetimes. It felt like maybe half of one, but you the last four to five years of my life, feels like lifetimes, which is just a little wild aside. Now, I guess for me to kind of bring us up to to the same timeline as right around the pandemic time, I started getting a little bit more exposure. People started asking me to be on their podcasts and stuff, which was really, really nerve wracking for me. And People may not believe it, you know, as I've, mean, if we've been running this podcast now for three or four years or whatever, but like, I mean, that was incredibly anxiety inducing for me. remember there was, I was on like one or two and then Anders asked me to be on barbell shrugged. And that was like huge for me. And I cannot tell you how fucking nervous I was. Like I remember. I remember I had to I had like I told Jenny like the house needs to be quiet. I like set it all up like this had to go well. And I'm not a big like meditator or anything, but I remember for like 25 minutes before that episode started recording, like I just sat there in my head like controlling my breathing was like you have to do well here. I did pretty well and I should you not like within. Two weeks, I probably had an extra like 10 or 12 clients from that podcast, you know. And that's where things like really and then I realized, OK, outreach does like pretty well for me. And I think I'm fortunate with my background, you know, in software and things like that. I approach nutrition from a little bit different of a way, a little bit more like methodical in those sorts of things. And I've been able to kind of carve out my own little small way of like how I like to do things and present things. And that's what what got me to a point where I felt. confident that I can make a full career and, you know, pay the bills for however many years I really need to from doing this. So that was where I felt like I will never have to go back sort of thing, which which felt really, really good. And it wasn't like a pure fear thing anymore. Don't get me wrong. I'm scared all the fucking time. But it wasn't like a fear that I will completely fail, run out of money and have to go back sort of thing, which is nice. Now I think what I would like to do well, do you have anything to add in that section? I was going to move into the kind of defining successes phase or are you good? OK, so for you now with, you know, so obviously Paragon's grown into the beast that it that it's become today and you guys have a whole really cool section of the lifting world there. How would you say with? with for yourself as like, you know, an entrepreneur and those sorts of things that you would define the successes for yourself now. Yeah, I'm struggling with this little bit, because... feeling a bit of my passion just for putting out a subscription program and helping people. like the helping people part, not so much slipping. Like that's the part that I really truly get the joy from. But it feels to me like I've very much been doing the same thing and it's kind of on autopilot now for for a couple of years. And I have a bit of craving of doing something more, figuring out what's next, et cetera. And so that's, it's a weird time for you to ask that question. Cause even like, think if you would have asked me a year ago, I would have been like, I've found success. I'm working, you know, less than 40 hours a week. I'm making more money than I thought that I would make working less than 40 hours a week. I have this incredible family and this work life balance and I've gotten into biking and I have the free time to do the biking. I'm literally like lifting for my job. Like when I lift and. My wife tells me that I only worked three hours today. I'm like, no, I lifted for two hours. I actually worked for five hours today. Right, right, right. And like not too many people get to say that. So, so in many ways, like I've found a ton of success and to be honest, like world's smallest violin for me, like, Brian can't figure out what he wants to do next. And he feels like stuck, like, woe is me, you know? But I mean, the way that I feel is real. And so like I, I do want more. And that's why I'm kind of starting the second podcast that is, shit, I need to talk about it more on another episode at some point, but I'm starting a new podcast. It's called life reflected. And it's about growing up throughout life and the way that it kind of defines you and changes you and the lessons you So that's kind of a project I'm working on now. But as far as like success, like I think I've achieved the success that I wanted to achieve within the fitness industry. It's easy to do the comparison is the thief of joy thing and looking at like the guys that have the PhDs and being like, wow, how cool would that be to be conducting my own studies and writing papers and having like five hour podcasts on hypertrophy volume? Like, wow, that's so dope. And then I'm like, I don't know, is that really like super dope? Like, is that really what I would want to be doing? And like, I, yeah, if you guys can't tell, I'm obviously in a bit of a, introspective period of my life trying to kind of figure out the pieces and everything. But by all accounts, I've achieved success and I'm extremely grateful for everything that's, that's come my way in this industry. And yeah, I'll pass that back over to you. Yeah, I don't want to say I'm glad it went that way, but that's kind what I was getting at is I remember I remember having a vivid conversation with myself when I was about to kind of make the jump. And I think and I was thinking if it takes us so I effectively quit my job, my software job and started my coaching business full time when I was 30. And I'm thinking, like, if it takes me 10 years to, quote unquote, make it and I can like have finances and stuff set like. Will that be a worthwhile investment of this 10 years? And I remember sitting there and thinking hard and my answer was yes. As if it takes me 10 years, I'm not, if I'm 40 when like things click and we're finally like financially stable, that will be worth it to me. I remember that was like my definition of success. And then the goal posts change, you know, like, and fortunately it is one of those things. Like if you stay diligent, If you focus on the outcomes, which is the people that provide you the success, which are the clients that you are fortunate to take care of. If you focus there and you just stay on it long enough, it would be unreasonable for you not to be successful. The hard thing, and this is somewhere where I feel that you and I are very fortunate, Brian, is we're a little bit older. You know, we're not playing the fucking dick measuring contests with. people like trying to buy Lambos and get rich quick schemes and stuff like I watch I have a lot of clients who are also coaches and some of them are like pretty young, you know, and to really hard on them because I'm like, you're supposed to lead from the front. And these are the sorts of things that you're doing. And I know it's, I sometimes I question, you know, their motives in those sorts of things. And but I think for me, it's been like, if I just do a really good job at helping people, and then they, their friends notice their family members notice and ask, and they're like, Aaron helped me out. I'm like, it's a foolproof method to always have clients, you know, and that's really been my success for you guys who, you know, were following me stuff. Like I'm not marketing myself often on Instagram or something. I might do it like once per week or something. And it's just been me like the overwhelming majority of my clients are all referrals really. So I think for the, for the defining success for me was I always wanted to be able to be like financially stable for the family, you know, and that was a big. fear thing for me and a big motivator from like, I'm not starting a family until I am financially stable because I don't want things. I don't want to have to make decisions from circumstance because that was something that I remember growing up with and it was like a large kind of contention and I and I always told myself like that will not happen with me. So that's a big part of it for me now. And I feel I won't say that I'm there, but again, I think it's a little bit of a moving goalpost sort of thing. You know, if I told myself even in 2020, 2021, like, hey, in three years, this is what things look like. My jaw probably would have hit the fucking floor. And they've been like, what? Yeah, like these things are going on. So I think, you know, that's one thing that I want to get at is I do think the goalposts will kind of shift as you as previous concerns start to evaporate as you move past those levels. Yeah, the goalpost moving is like a super real thing. using an analogy of money, they say that you always want three times more money than you have. So it's like, if you have $100,000, it's like, I'll be happy when I have 300,000. And if you have 300,000, it's like, I'll be happy when I have a million, you know? So that number is always gonna be three times higher than where it started. So I do think that it's important in those ways to really, truly honestly reflect on your successes and acknowledge them. And like my wife does a really good job of this. She, every year she writes down her like goals for the year. And then at the end of the year, she goes back and like reflects on those goals and writes about like whether she achieved them or not. And in most cases she achieves them, which is insane. And, and something that I think most people should do because even though she does that and she acknowledges that she achieved her goals, she still struggles with feeling like she should be achieving more. And the goalpost moving. And man, imagine how much you would feel that if you weren't writing it down and reflecting on it and acknowledging it, you could see those goalposts just like drift, drift, drift, drift, drift. And so being honest and remembering to celebrate your successes, I think is. Definitely in that that I think I mean I do the same thing on the first I was a little bit lazy this year I probably didn't get into it like the second or third week of the New Year But I go get coffee by myself or something like that and I like write down like five or six goals I want for the year and it's a it's a little bit of a blend of professional and personal And then I reflect on it at the end of the year and and I do really enjoy doing that I Know we're kind of getting close to the end of our time cap here But I wanted to have one last little kind of section which is like kind of notable peaks or accomplishments throughout our coaching business career. And it doesn't have to be necessarily financially related, but anything that kind of stands out to you as like a fuck, like that really happened or this is really cool, I can't believe this is happening to me or for me sort of thing. Yeah, getting to coach Kenny leverage at the CrossFit Games was pretty sweet. 2013, he I took him to regionals and then to the CrossFit Games and I got to like be there at the CrossFit Games with a coaching badge, like behind the scenes with all the athletes and on the floor of the games and stuff like that. So that was certainly a really cool pinnacle moment for me. That was obviously from the early years. in these later years. I mean, it's just been filled with smaller things that I think are dwarfed by being able to be a coach at the CrossFit Games. But finding the success with Paragon, think, really finding my identity and being true to my identity as I was leaving CrossFit, I think, is also a pinnacle moment for me. Because I could have just stayed doing CrossFit even though my passion wasn't there anymore. Instead, I said, I want to do bodybuilding and I still have started some of my identity tied to CrossFit and I'm going to follow this and see where it takes me. I'm going to create a program and see if it resonates with people. And the fact that it resonated with people is a huge part of why I worked with Lori partnered with her, started Paragon and ultimately ended up where we are today. And so the lesson there just being that if there is a, a passion or something that you feel like you have to follow, it's probably worth at least putting some time and effort into following that passion. Maybe not completely ditching your prior thing first, because even as I was transitioning out of CrossFit into the online space exclusively, I actually still worked at the CrossFit gym for a year. it's a trend in my story is that moving from thing to thing, I always seem to continue doing the prior thing until the new thing is established. For me, that works with my psychology. Like we were saying, maybe that doesn't work with some people where they need to really like get out of it before, you know, if they, they, yeah, exactly. So, so E like you, so each person is obviously unique in that way. But I think knowing where you fall on that spectrum is, super important. And then, yeah, I think, I think those would probably be the, man, I have another one too. We completely skipped over this, but John Cena was a member of our gym for, for years. And John Cena was like my training partner with Anders for two or three years, basically, he helped us fund the new gym that we started in 2015. Before things went awry, he helped us fund the starting up of that gym bought us a bunch of equipment and plates and jerk blocks and stuff like that. And then literally anytime he was in San Diego, he came to the gym with text Anders and I and we train with Cena. And that was that was really cool. mean, I Maybe not as cool just because I forgot to mention it, but now that I'm mentioning it, I'm like, wow, that was pretty rad too. So we got to do that. And then Dirk Bentley was a member of the, not a member of the gym, but he dropped into the gym when he was in town for concerts. so Anders and I got to spend a bunch of time with Dirk's and we went backstage with him to the concert three different times. So those two moments certainly stand out as highlights as well. Yeah, the Sina days were really cool. I remember like one day I think I can't remember like every once in a while. Like I can't remember if it was you or Anders would like text me like, hey, we're to do this thing at the gym in the afternoon. Like if you can get out of work and come lift and I would like try I would have to like make up some story so I could just go leave work to go train in the middle of the day. And he's like, you're you're not going to want to miss this one. I'm like, fuck. OK, I to find a way to get out of work. And I walk in the gym and John Cena's there and my jaw hits the fucking floor. Because at this time, like he's peak, he is the guy of WWE still like and we were watching wrestling and stuff all the time and it was really fucking cool and he was the nicest human being on planet Earth. That those those it was really, really cool. Looking back on for me, the I would say one of the notable peaks is it really did kind of change for me was my done for you client check in system. It was this Google spreadsheet that I still to this day use with every single one of my clients that I had built. And I would kind of put on my stories and stuff. And I had a couple of clients start asking me if they could buy it. And I at first I was like, no, this is kind of my thing. Maybe, you know, just create your own or something like that. And then after like the fourth or fifth person asked me and I was like, okay, give me like, you know, 20 bucks for it. And they're like immediately like paid me. And then after a while I'm like, you know, I might have something here. So I remember it's, it was actually like right as we were starting the podcast, I had buttoned it up a little bit and I made some Facebook ads and I turned them on and Jenny and I went down to Tulum that weekend. And I think I sold like 30 of them in the first four days at like $25 a pop or whatever. And I remember being like, holy shit, this is insane. And it really has become like a cornerstone of my business. I've last time I checked it, there's like 1800 some coaches that have that that have bought that done for you client checking system from like 57 different countries or something like that. If anyone's listening. Right? Like it's a hundred bucks. I guarantee you, you will get orders of magnitude, more value out of that. There's three specific people that I can think of or companies I can think off the top of my head that have paid me a hundred dollars for that checking system. And they use it for 100 plus client rosters through their coaching team. And I like, and then when I see it on people's stories and stuff, like it makes me proud. I'm like, this is insane. Me, I created this. It's literally 2000. At this point because of upgrade like 2,000 plus coaches are using it to service hundreds of thousands of clients all this thing that I like built that I needed to use for my you know coaching roster So that one's been really really cool And that for me another notable moment Is when I did the barbell shrugged episode with Andy Galpin, I remember being terrified to do that one like Cause I mean, I mean, Andy Galpin's got really serious credentials and he's brilliant. And then there's me, you know, and I was really afraid that he's good. He was in the middle of it. He was just gonna make this dude's a idiot. He doesn't know what he's talking about. And it went really, really well. It could not have gone better. So that was a really, really cool moment for me that, that stands out. And then a last one is when Jackson asked me to do business together. Jackson was someone that used to really kind of scare me. You know, his personality is pretty pretty much how how he is and he would, you know, make some comments or posts and stuff. And I would be like, this is about me. Like I'm things aren't I'm not going to make it. You know, people are going to think I'm a fraud sort of thing. And so when he we kind of had this random, you know, kind of meeting being here in Bali and then when he proposed me, you know, to do business together, that was like I was a holy shit. have the respect of someone, you know, that I really, really respect. That was pretty big for me. And that's only grown, you know, with the gym and the other projects and stuff. that we have together. So that was a pretty big thing of someone that you kind of respect having a lot of confidence in your capabilities was a big kind of confidence booster in the way that I view myself. So those are the kind of notable ones. I'm sure looking back when I'm not in the thick of things like the cream of rice will probably a big one. You we've had the cream of rice in the hands of a lot of like Olympians and stuff like that too. People are asking us to get it to them in places where we just don't have the means to get it to them yet, which is pretty cool. But I feel very fortunate for my kind of entrepreneur arc that I'm finding myself in now. And it's all because of the gym. I was talking to some friends and the gym has given me everything. It's given me a career. It's giving me this decades long hobby. It's giving me my fiance. you know, friends, like it's everything in my life. So I feel just eternally grateful for it. And I can't not wait to go spend time in Undefeated once it's open. Yeah, that's awesome. mean, what a way to wrap it up. Like, hail to the gym is kind of like the message there. One of the things I wanted to say before you had that awesome close was just how great it is to see how you have, A, used your skills in software development to create the check-in program, but then also how you've been able to kind of parlay that into starting so many tangential businesses, the cream of rice, the undefeated gym, the work, the upgrade. you've done with Jackson, the check-in program. Like you have a lot of these different businesses now that have all kind of grown out of the main start of, I'm committing to be a nutrition coach. And all of these things just fortuitously or serendipitously occurred out of that. So that's been super cool and impressive to watch as you grow as an entrepreneur. And yeah, I think we can just finish by thanking the gym and Jim bros. for everything that we are in life. Definitely, definitely. The one final thing, final, final that I'll wrap up with is I would say at least for me, like the fear kind of never goes away. And you're always going to find yourself in these kind of situations where you feel uncomfortable, you're kind of backs up against the wall. But what grows is your conviction in your ability to problem solve and get yourself into a better position. Right. So that's one thing. Whereas in the beginning, like you lose whatever, three or four clients and you think like it's all gonna collapse and you know, I'm not gonna have any money. Where now is like you might, something might happen, you lose clients or something and you're like, I've been here before, gonna have a couple of Rocky like two months or whatever, but like I'll figure it out. And that would say that's like the best thing is like once you cross through that bridge of like, something disastrous might happen, but I'm like really, really resourceful now and I'll figure it out. And that like, that's where I'm at now. Like I could have like last couple months or, couple of weeks have been like pretty rocky and wild on a lot of things. And I'm like, eh, it's okay. I'm going to figure it out. And that's like really nice. Once you're bridged to that other side. Yeah, for sure. You've been able to kind of get your mind to not sit there and stress, but to actually focus on what can be done productively to get through this. Sweet. Good stuff. Hopefully a positive and helpful episode for you guys. As always, any questions, just ping us. Next week might be a little bit rough with me being in Pennsylvania, but I'll talk to you, Brian. So we'll either be back next week or in two weeks. As always, guys, thank you for listening. We'll catch you soon.