Eat Train Prosper

The Protein Range Debate | ETP#4

January 26, 2021 Aaron Straker | Bryan Boorstein
Eat Train Prosper
The Protein Range Debate | ETP#4
Chapters
Eat Train Prosper
The Protein Range Debate | ETP#4
Jan 26, 2021
Aaron Straker | Bryan Boorstein

Bryan and Aaron provide their take on the protein range debate. Is 0.8 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight sufficient? Is there any beneficial potential in eating up to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.  Are those upper ranges superfluous or is there any merit? What are the important contextual considerations that warrant a lower protein intake vs. the higher end ranges.

Questions Explored:

  • What is your ultimate goal / importance of context
  • Considerations when trying maximize hypertrophy both with and without concern for fat accumulation
  • Can you lower protein if you are eating at a maintenance level intake
  • Is a higher protein intake more beneficial during a calorie deficit
  • How protein impacts the overall Thermic Effect of Feeding
  • Gluconeogenesis
  • Dietary limitations and restrictions
  • Food Sensitivities
  • Religious and moral commitments and how these can impact what may or may not be realistic for higher protein intakes
  • Protein "overfeeding" studies
  • https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-19
  • https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-015-0100-0
  • High protein intake, the relation with renal function and kidney safety


Nutrition Coaching with Aaron ⬇️
https://strakernutritionco.com
Instagram: @aaron_straker

Follow Bryan's Gym Programming ⬇️
https://evolvedtrainingsystems.com
Instagram: @bryanboorstein

Eat Train Prosper Socials ⬇️
Instagram: @Eat.Train.Prosper
YouTube: EAT TRAIN PROSPER PODCAST

Show Notes Transcript

Bryan and Aaron provide their take on the protein range debate. Is 0.8 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight sufficient? Is there any beneficial potential in eating up to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.  Are those upper ranges superfluous or is there any merit? What are the important contextual considerations that warrant a lower protein intake vs. the higher end ranges.

Questions Explored:

  • What is your ultimate goal / importance of context
  • Considerations when trying maximize hypertrophy both with and without concern for fat accumulation
  • Can you lower protein if you are eating at a maintenance level intake
  • Is a higher protein intake more beneficial during a calorie deficit
  • How protein impacts the overall Thermic Effect of Feeding
  • Gluconeogenesis
  • Dietary limitations and restrictions
  • Food Sensitivities
  • Religious and moral commitments and how these can impact what may or may not be realistic for higher protein intakes
  • Protein "overfeeding" studies
  • https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-19
  • https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-015-0100-0
  • High protein intake, the relation with renal function and kidney safety


Nutrition Coaching with Aaron ⬇️
https://strakernutritionco.com
Instagram: @aaron_straker

Follow Bryan's Gym Programming ⬇️
https://evolvedtrainingsystems.com
Instagram: @bryanboorstein

Eat Train Prosper Socials ⬇️
Instagram: @Eat.Train.Prosper
YouTube: EAT TRAIN PROSPER PODCAST

00:00:01  Welcome to the E train Prosper podcast. We provide you sustainable training principles for strength and building muscle effective nutrition practices for improving and maintaining a lean physique and practical lifestyle habits for becoming a champion of your own health both Inside and Out hosted by Aaron Straker and Bryan Boorstein.

00:00:24  Today's episode. We are talking about the protein range debate. So whether a high protein diet is going to be in more beneficial approach for you or whether a higher protein diet is going to get better approach and how this is going to relate to your own personal goals in the context. But before we get into all that Brian, why don't you tell me about the last couple days? Everything's been good, man. I finally I think found some clarity with what I want to do with my training over the next few months and I've gone back and forth in my head. I don't know if y'all could kind of send some of the tone in my voice when I was talking about how demanding and time-consuming training has been recently but it really has and one interesting thing is that I moved from about six to nine months of really dedicated hardcore have heard Street focus training into this six-month period with my coach. So I've been over a year now of just grinding and you know, I had like a week off here.

00:01:24  I moved in a week of traveling and you know things things where I was able to get some kind of longer-term recovery in there. But for the most part for the better part of a year and change, I've just been crushing it and I decided after much consideration that I was going to take back over my own programming into the terms of a three times a week full body routine. So I wrote this up a tentative version kind of proposed model and I asked my coach how he would feel about us continuing our relationship with weekly check-ins that aren't necessarily just specific to programming since he won't really be doing that for me anymore. But more is a way for us to continue a higher-level discussion on all things hypertrophy relating to training and nutrition and he agreed we come up with a with a cool

00:02:17  Set up there and I'm just really excited to kind of have a my programming back in my hands be put it into more reasonable frequency. So this three times a week thing. I'm actually going to have six sessions in the week. And my plan is to do an AM and PM on the three training days. So I'll go lower in the a.m. Upper in the p.m. And be able to come to Auto regulate some of my training in that regard. I wear I'll have one or two movements in each session that I really want to focus on is kind of my metric movements and then I have arms and Deltas desire. So, you know the big compound movements her chest and back and then arms and Elsa's desired and kind of same thing for legs. I'll have one or two main focus movements and then kind of Auto regulate volume from there. So I'm pretty excited for this. It'll be a change and as usual keep everyone updated on that and then Aaron I know you have had a year-long goals that are culminating here and

00:03:17  I'd love to hear more about that.

00:03:20  Yasou on last Tuesday. I wrapped up my year of only taking cold showers which was a very interesting Deep dive into like mental fortitude and just dealing with the suck at different parts of the Eric specially for those, you know, like 7 weeks. We spent in Denver in October November and then this Friday I will also wrap up a year without alcohol which to be completely honest tea alcohol was pretty easy for me once party and kind of stopped my used for alcohol my life kind of really dropped off but the showers was very trying a different parts and what's really interesting now is so I've had to then I shower that weren't cold since last Tuesday and the first one at like the first time with man this feels great, you know, but then by the time I got out I felt just like kind of like soft and weak said done it like that cuz I felt like the cold showers were like this accomplishment. You know what I mean? I feel accomplished when I got

00:04:20  And now that I'm not doing them all the time anymore. It was just kind of like a like a little bit of a letdown. So I came up with some rules of myself. So now because it is something I want to like kind of that if you don't use it, you lose it, right, you know cold turkey quit if the sun's out I'm taking a cold shower if it's not I'll take a hot shower, right and it's just kind of nice knowing that I don't have to but it's definitely been an interesting year of just said that the challenge in that regard for sure. I can definitely say that being in Colorado in the winter hot shower is of Paramount value, but I can see that it's interesting, you know that you decided to or that your year ended and you're in a warm climate because I feel like the reward of taking the hot shower would be so much larger if you were still in, Colorado.

00:05:10  Yeah, like I don't want to take a hot shower during the day because I know I'm just going to be like sweating my stuff when I get out and that's been one of the nice part about it is like I don't have to worry about sweating when I get out of the shower and let when I'm getting dressed that being said the weeks in Colorado, especially one like we got those couple snow storms and it would be like 18 degrees and snowing outside and I'm like a shower, you know, it's really crazy how the body adapts I would never make my teeth whenever chattering my hands and feet would go numb like regularly but within like 45 60 seconds of being out of shower, I was back to normal temperature. It's really really wild how you do it. And then what was really close when I was in Denver, like I was at warm all the time. I would still wear shorts to walk to the gym and stuff even though it would be like 15 20 degrees outside and I was really okay with that was really really interesting how the body does adapt. It was very interesting for sure. Super Bowl Iron Man. I cannot believe that you were going to the gym in shorts in like 30 degree weather.

00:06:10  I still like a year-and-a-half being away from SoCal and I'm still like the biggest pansy when it comes to the weather here.

00:06:18  All right, we think about getting into this protein for sure. So it seems like there's ranges. We have kind of literature and preferences of people that it seems to rain from somewhere around 8 grams per pound of body weight all the way up to like 1.4 and maybe even higher as we'll discuss what are some of the factors or variables and specific goals that people might face that would impact their needs and does preference play a part in that may be an inheritance.

00:06:50  Yeah, so with the client I work with I generally like depending on if I have like let's say we have a zero restriction. Right? No one has any type of eating preference or anything like that somewhere around like pound to like 1.25 G. I really like per body weight. Now that's obviously kind of like a generalization there times where we go higher their times and we go lower but I think that's a good decent kind of starting range. The consideration be really would like to make our like what is your angle? Are you trying to maximize hypertrophy in the in like the context of what you're what you're eating for knowing that it's going to be a little bit more time-consuming. You're going to have to come up with like more prep food sources of might be a little bit higher and cost. Do you have any real concern for her body fat accumulation? That's another really important consideration to make because as protein comes, you know down. So let's say let's back up a little bit and writes lets their ankles maximizing hypertrophy.

00:07:50  Require you to put on some degree of weight right to increase the amount of muscle you have you get to a point where you can split those calories obviously between carbohydrate fat protein. Do you have a concern about fat accumulation? If you don't really pay I'm gladly willing to put on any fat. I need you to maximize at hypertrophy. Probably spending those calories towards carbohydrate or going to they do the most effective but then is growing like a cleaner a priority for you. So personally I find myself in a ladder. I've been through the like, you know get big at all costs method in but I found in what's really interesting is a lot of the research supports this as well. You just put more fat on that you didn't need to lose when time comes to like clean out. So I take like a little bit slower approach right pay a little bit more attention to my blood glucose levels and up for a little bit of a higher protein intake now, why is the higher protein intake going to be?

00:08:50  Arguably more beneficial we'll talk in the world won't get into that a little bit later and today's episode is maintenance another goal of yours. Like let's say you don't really have any like direct hypertrophy goes kind of like what you said, you know a few minutes ago with with transitioning your training like you've been pushing so hard for you. No 12 months straight. Basically, you're like, you know what I kind of just need a little bit of a maybe a physical mental reprieve I still want to train but I don't want to be like really, you know, pushing myself trying to beat the log book because of the other drain that does put on you psychologically, you know mentally after 12 months. So if maintenance is your goal and you're just trying to stay there you can be a little bit like more lenient. It makes diet your diet and don't quote on quote easier on your life because let's face it. It's much easier to eat fats and carbohydrates and protein you can find him in much more in abundance from like you're the shelves in the grocery store Reno rice cakes fruits different things like that. Don't

00:09:50  Wireless cooking and it's more cost-effective moving to like the other part of the the the calorie equation. Are you in a calorie? Deficit? That's another really large consideration when you're in a calorie deficit no keeping as much muscle as possible. Is it with a goal so you can basically look the best as you drop that body fat and keeping up keeping your protein hires going to help with that because one it's going to be protein sparing. Obviously. It's going to help with your satiation because proteins going to be more satiating than the obviously carbohydrate in a good way to think about that at the end of the night is some people are like all I'm starving you I'm hungry because I'm me know at the end of in the Diet phase and sometimes like this isn't something I usually use a client to eat more chicken breast in that. I don't want chicken breast to make you not hungry. You just you just like 1 something to do right? So that's something to think about. It's just more satiating in that regard.

00:10:50  And then the kind of the biggest proponent of it with the the satiating is its thermic effect of feeding, right? So each macronutrient has a thermic effect approximately what percentage of the work, you know, the quote your body has to do to digestion assimilate those nutrients right protein is significantly higher. So protein is about 25% So if you think about it, if you have you do 100 calories of protein 25 of those 100 calories you were going to basically spend in just the digestion and assimilation process when compared to carbohydrate and fat those are much lower fats only usually around like 5 to 7 % and then carbohydrate can be in like 10 to 15 on the higher ends. So when you consider that it's just a better choice, I guess so up to a certain range, you will hit a threshold of diminishing returns, but it's going to be better to eat, you know a higher protein range of like maybe 1.25.

00:11:50  Is 1.35 up to 1.5 maybe even depending on the culture there their methods and your other kind of Health factors of my plan to that as opposed to only heating point because you need to spend those calories need to go somewhere proteins going to help keep you a little bit more satiated and you will in turn, you know, metabolize those parts of that energy in those digestion and assimilation process has the last thing I want to talk about in The Mitten starting the calorie deficit part of that is your blood glucose levels. So there's a process of you know gluconeogenesis, which is when your body will convert 9 glucose like substances, which can be generally protein. I'm sure within some certain context would happen is fat also into a hookah glucose, but it's uncommon and it's even even if it does happen, it's still an energy conversion process, which is still going to be calories burned witches, you know, if it's within the context of your goal as opposed to spending the the same

00:12:50  Calories or macros on carbohydrate which is already of glucose. So and inconsideration there it's a little bit safer and safer. I'm using in terms of relative to hoping that your body is going to oxidize and mobilizing are free fatty acids supposed to glucose. So going with the higher protein is going to lead to that a little bit as well so that it's kind of like a little high level on that for the how protein can fit in based on what your end goal is. What do you have thoughts about any of that Brian way you said kind of alliance with the way that I naturally go through my cutting and and gaining periods in that when I'm cutting my my calories flies lower and I want to feel more full right. So for the fish eating affects, I do tend to lean heavier on protein and vegetables which kind of irrelevant protein but just filling things in general right and then when you're gaining

00:13:50  Don't want to feel satiated. At least I mean someone in your case for sure with someone who has to eat 4000 calories. You don't want to be overlearning on protein because it can be very difficult for you to then get enough calories in overall one interesting thought that I have on this that's always I feel like people have different ways of calculating this but protein in carbohydrate sources, right? So when you're in a calorie deficit, you're probably not eating a ton of carbs. It's not a huge impact. You're probably going to make sure you're getting enough protein anyways, cuz you want to preserve muscle but when you're on a bulking diet and you're eating in a caloric Surplus there so many carbohydrates being settled into your body that you could probably get 5852 80 grams of protein from carbohydrates, or do you count these in your total? Do you take a percentage of them? What's the way that you handle these types of proteins?

00:14:46  Really interesting questions. So with myself my clients, I'm big in the camp of providing you the actual information and education. So I know based on you know, the coach or the different system that you come through. You don't count protein from carbohydrates or you don't count like carbohydrates that are in a protein Source or something like that. That's not a method that I recommend going with because I want everyone to learn the actual size because that's how you can like basically guarantee results. Right? So we if if there's protein in your urine. So you're doing a lot of beans lentils or something like that of carbohydrates higher in protein layout. Of course, we're going to count that. How about like someone who he just eats a ton of bagels and like cereals can have high protein to write. So his I feel like I've even a lower quality protein than what you're going to get like beans and legumes and stuff like that.

00:15:37  Yeah, so with my clients what we're generally going to follow guidelines of the 8285 to 90% whole quality nutrient dense food sources, then we have like 10 to 15% No flexible food salads call him. So if you're doing like a shit ton of cereal, right, you're not within those guidelines and you're probably not going to have the best result and that's a big part two kind of look back on them. Where is your food quality coming from because it's not just like

00:16:09  Too often, I think people just sit at the very highest level thinking only about like calories and macros, right? But once you like kind of take it a step down and look at like what are the other what's the tea ingredients list of the other ingredients are in that food that you're putting in your body? So when you're eating a much more food like in a bulking or a gaming face putting if you're doing a lot of liking all sorts of different bagels or different breakfast cereals and things like that, you're putting more ingredients into your body and there's just a higher incidence potential incidents for like low-grade inflammation or kind of intolerance is to some of those ingredients and you're eating just a very massive wide array of a lot of processed foods or just increasing the incidence rate that you have some sort of like negative intestinal reaction or digestive issues that will then one your way to go up and you won't be able to say if it's tell easily if it's from you know, the gaining is actually working or if you're just like mask

00:17:09  Information and water retention because you know are eating shit tons of Captain Crunch and don't realize that one of the binding agents are one of the emulsifiers or something like that. You have like a low-grade and corns to so I think it like that's how I use that food quality kind of percentage so that we know obviously when we're eating more we want to incorporate some certain things like maybe some fruit uses like orange juice in or around a workout or something like that just to get you easier carbohydrate and see if not super Vino bloated and full all the time, but it's definitely a fine line that you can kind of start to slip down if you let things get a little too loose interesting. Yeah. I tend to definitely lean more on bread products when I'm when I'm in a gaining face. I put buns on all my burgers and bagels post-workout will have cereals for dessert and like things like that. So as a means of getting carbohydrates, I've always wondered about that cuz I can look at my nutrition log at the end of the day.

00:18:09  And it says I had 200 grams of protein but like a hundred forty of that was from you no way and lean protein sources and then I've got 60 as like Superfluous carbohy are protein and carbohydrate sources. Yeah, and I don't think like in that case. It's a it's an issue. I think it would it really comes down to like are you trying to cheat the system right? Are you there? Aquilo? I just I don't want to have to eat like any cook anything. I'm just going to have nothing but protein shakes and like, you know Kodiak cakes, when you trying to cheat the system generally find yourself the victim but like the things that happen to you when you try and break the rules that the rules are in place for a reason you can like Ben them within you know, various degrees for for certain times, but they're trying to just get around it by discretion protein shakes and like protein bagels and muffins and keto muffins in like all these different things generally will eventually catch up to you. Yeah. I'm just going with straight normal double baked carb Bagels no protein bagels for me.

00:19:08  Shifting gears just a little bit. So we have we have this need for protein. We all know that protein is important you needed for training unit 4 recovery, etcetera etcetera. So we do have specific groups of people people that have food sensitivities religious constraints vegetarianism veganism things like this. Can you talk a little bit about some of these protein sources and what these people can do to make sure they're getting off

00:19:38  yasso to cut back up just a little bit. So coming back to the range, right which range of protein is going to be, you know best for you. So there's a general ledger rdr2 that like, you know, 0.8 grams per pound or like a plug higher intake like can like I mentioned earlier in the episode 1 .25 1.35 or even higher there are like some some limitation. So either dietary limitations or like moral or religious limitations that can make that more realistic that you end up on the lower side. So some of these drugs food sensitivities, right? So I was talking to a lady. I remember a couple months back in her. I don't know if it was if it was her son or her daughter was allergic to beef. So anytime he had any red meat he had like, I don't remember which type of reaction but for someone like that like, okay, that's the something like you're removing an entire and it's really a food group but a type of a protein Source, right, especially with

00:20:38  Heme iron ore different types like that. So with that it's like a very big consideration to kind of make and that is going to influence whether you're having with a higher protein or a lower protein intake. So moving forward kind of like in terms of paying continuation with that moral standpoints, right? So maybe you have like maybe you're a vegetarian maybe you're a vegan those just kind of a limit the options that you have for being able to eat different types of food in that regard or different protein sources license. So if you do find yourself in one of those kind of groups, you just kind of his limited with the amount of foods, you can eat especially because

00:21:26  For some of like you're vegan or vegetarian options your protein increases at a at a at a factor of your carbohydrate or fat. For example, like a tofu right you can you get another 20 grams of protein from tofu. But you're also getting like 10 grams of fat or something like that. And in that rate it's going to be harder to because you can't get your fat in your carbohydrates are going to have to have a ceiling at some point based on the context of your goals. So if you get an extra 7 grams of protein, but you had to have an extra 30 grams of carbohydrate to get that 7 grams of protein. It came time to reach like a point of is this going to be is it worth increasing my carbohydrate at a rate just to increase my

00:22:12  Protein so kind of moving forward from that with the confines of those different macronutrients the vegan vegetarian vegetarian is a month or just time to talked about and then if we move into I guess one thing I do want to say it in that church to help you out. So the exception kind of there is seitan work stay in sight and I don't know how people said, you know, then the best way to exception that's what I said found there. That one is a you're going to get more protein than like carbohydrate or fat. However, it's a week and eating very large amounts of this week. We've been could become problematic. If you have some may be low-grade gluten intolerance or digestive issues with her becoming more increasingly common. So that is something to kind of consider with your type of intake.

00:23:06  Or what you'll kind of religious moral or you know dietary limitations you have that would influence its own in terms of you know, some of these opting for that lower intake will be the best-case scenario because it can become semi unrealistic and actually achieving us higher-end ranges.

00:23:29  Yeah, so that's all really interesting is I wanted to point out to that. I feel like way products and just in general dairy products are probably like a huge value-add for anyone that isn't a vegan in and can tolerate this types of proteins. Yeah. So look out look away. I slit or even if you do digest at welaka, whey concentrate is going to make us just such an a low-hanging fruit add a considerable amount of protein into your day. And then if you do digest like Dairy well and you can do like cottage cheese, which is a super high in protein Greek yogurt is another good option are that really just helps you get it in or even different light types of cheeses. If you if you do. Just a moment you have with the fat macros available. They're just really likes simple add-ons. It will help you out if you're not. So if you are like like a vegan or vegetarian your pea protein isolate is going to arguably be the best source there for a quality protein option A.

00:24:29  Cilic decently find some of the amino acid profiles and we'll get you a car but decent chunk of protein without having to like sacrifices the amount of carbohydrates and fats that you get just to achieve the one caveat. I will make there is it is quite chalky the the pea protein isolate. But if you are interested in trying to find somewhere that does a good one. I know truenutrition.com has a pretty decent P Protein Isolate that I have actually tasted in the past. It's pretty decent.

00:25:00  All right, good stuff. All definitely lots of egg whites and things like that. If you're a vegetarian and if you're vegan, you got to figure out those other ways.

00:25:10  Yeah, just that it's a little bit you have to step through a few more Hoops to get to the end and gold but it's definitely doable.

00:25:17  So next we have what's really really interesting and I remember you and I had this conversation.

00:25:24  Cuz it may be like super early summer time or end end of spring or something and be school today is there's two studies were going to reference that were done semi recently within at least the past few years. I believe and the show protein overfeeding study. So they took subjects and then fed them in hyper caloric States, but that the the majority of that hyper caloric intake came from protein sources and interests the findings from these are actually very very interesting.

00:25:55  Yeah, totally the first overpro overfeeding protein study. They're both from Jose and San Antonio's Labs with his colleagues. So they took resistance train people. This is actually one of the coolest part of the studies that they did it on people that have been training with weights. So they took one group and they basically kept them it would what would be the lower end of the acceptable protein range. So as Aaron discussed earlier 8 grams per pound of body weight is kind of the lower and where you would want to be to be a 200-pound male is eating 160 grams of protein, then they took another group and they put them at Double that amount of proteins of to actually more than double. They put them it two times body weight to a 200 pound person would be eating 400 G and then in the control group, they were eating 160 grams of extra protein.

00:26:43  One of the craziest findings or the craziest finding of this first study that they did was it there was no significant changes between both groups in body weight fat Mass fat free mass or percent of body fat.

00:26:58  If you're like me, you're sitting here thinking right now like okay these people ate an additional potentially 220 grams of protein per day. That's 880 calories per day that they're eating over this other group and over a long. Of time literally nothing happened. So essentially what would they wanted to just a follow-up study because they needed to kind of stuff this out and figure out exactly what is going on with this whole thing. So they did a second study and in this group and this time they had them eating slightly less proteins. The one group was right at about body weight is 2.3 grams per kilogram and there's 2.2 kilograms per pound. So just over body weight for one group and the other group was 3.4 kilograms per day, which is like one and a half times body weight so still, you know high protein levels again resistance train people.

00:27:58  They called them normal protein and high protein groups and they basically found another crazy finding that the normal protein group gained more body weight than the high protein group, but the high protein group experienced a decrease in fat mass percentage what's going on with this right? Additionally, there were no changes in blood primitive. Do all basic metabolic panel numbers. We're the same despite this

00:28:30  This change to the diet with all the sick excess protein kind of crazy to think that you can eat all this extra protein and actually lose body fat. So what are we to make of this Aaron? Yeah, so I have a few of my own hypotheses here. So what's a call the first one first? So basically what they did is they they took these two groups written just fed him like shitloads of protein. I mean spending on who you are coming from that that second group, you know, two times bodyweight that's like your old school bodybuilder type, you know for a 200 pound person 400 grams of protein make the most I've ever done was like we'd like 305 of 305 grams per per pound when I was still like to 15 to 20 and I was miserable like that last meal. I was very very over it and it was like a commitment like are there and we signed up for this for trying to do it, but I really didn't want it. So if you remember kind of back earlier in the

00:29:28  An episode of talked about thermic effect of feeding right in proteins is just significantly higher. So for protein, especially likely Nino animal cuts a protein or something that you actually have to like to digest its like comes in a hole.

00:29:43  You're going to burn expend, you know about 25% of that to digest in a stimulate those nutrients. So that's a big proponent a big a big a part of this and then for protein to actually get converted and stored as body fat. It's a very very energy-intensive process. So first you're going to have protein write your body's going to take put it needs from Nino. Bring that down to amino acids put that into amino acid pool. And then if it's a truly INXS, right and let's assume that carbohydrates are lower in you're not you know, getting enough of your carbohydrates your body going to go through that process of gluconeogenesis to convert that protein into glucose. Carbohydrate carbohydrate is really interesting in that we can store it right we can store it. That's not body fat vegan store carbohydrates in are primarily in our muscles in our liver and extra brain was for a little bit too and a compound called glycogen. Just think of it as like a potential potential energy right energy stores.

00:30:43  For then even if they say those are completely maxed out and then we decide hey this what was originally protein is now a glucose that we want to convert an extra storage body fat. We need to go through a process called de novo lipogenesis to convert that to a would-be, you know, you're free fatty acids to actually store adipose tissue. So it's just like very energy-intensive processes that have to go through these conversions where you going to these large chunks of what was that initial protein in the calories from that are getting chopped off in these like conversions. So a little kind of scenario. I like to to use yours or let's say you're traveling when you have $100 of like us American dollars and you go to like Europe and you convert that to Euro I guess and the person that does that conversion for you is going to take their cut, you know, that's a 15% So you start with $100 and now you have an equivalent of $85 in your you know, gyro and then made

00:31:43  Butran, baby travel to somewhere like like UK or Britain or something like that and you need to pay for something in the local currency. Let's just for for, you know examples take they don't take the Euro converted to British pound River convert stats going to take their 15% So now you have you know, I sure using use your number but whatever 15% of 85 was so like let's say it's 60 just to make it really really simple to start with $100. Now you have 60 and could someone who ever does that process like takes their cut and that is how you can have the you know, what started as so much protein in terms of it, like like this caloric excess. Would they find that you don't actually store any there is no we know cannibal or even measurable increases in in fat Mass because it's such an energy-intensive process to keep doing these conversions.

00:32:34  So that is a kind of my hypothesis on the first study. And then the second one again, if they it all comes down to where that this is where it when people coming back to what I said briefly trailer about that your levels of the importance of the different nutrition Parts at the very very top we have the calories, right? And then there's you her crowd. The Tesla calories are the only thing that matters like but how you have your your your protein and carbohydrates in your facts don't matter. It's not really true II levels like that protein are that macronutrient distribution if you were to take someone

00:33:09  Two people I guess or even a study like this and give them feed them and I so caloric calorie content or it's the same calories one person's is like a much higher in protein. Let's see the other person's are are made up of fat in a piper calor, you know State what should you know, exceeding the maintenance like in this for no particular use case with a study that person who has a higher protein is not going to put on as much you know body fat as a person eating the increasing fat, Mass. So what's interesting here is it with this second study. These findings are in alignment with a lot of the other overfeeding studies that I have found in and looked at in red on particular the carbohydrate versus fat, but this one is built with schools the first one with protein which me, no again points that just if your want to eat a lot and not have to worry about, you know, you're fat increasing to like a particular marginal. Sorry.

00:34:06  And an appreciable Manor going with a protein is going to be a better approach. And in this case, you can even decrease some of your fat mass as well. Just do that expensive energy conversion process. Yeah, I think practically the takeaway for people or at least kind of what I would take away from it is that if I'm in a cutting phase and I find myself extremely hungry and I'm like, I literally don't know what to do. I feel like I'm going to just waste away and die reaching for a chicken breast is probably a pretty safe move and even if I went a little overboard and had 200 or 300 calories of chicken breast, which is like you do 50 to 75 grams of protein. It probably isn't going to have much of a negative impact but it's probably going to really fill me up and heading to that is definitely, you know, something to build confidence if you're dieting to to realize that you don't have to necessarily go hungry. You just have to make specific choices that allow you to fulfill that hunger.

00:35:06  Yeah.

00:35:08  And then kind of one other thing that this study brought attention to was no changes in blood perimeters. So I mean I think for the most part the whole kidney safety and high protein diet intake thing has been mostly put to rest but you know, we also think the same about knees over toes in squats and people still have questions about that. So let's talk a little bit about high protein intakes in kidneys here.

00:35:35  Yeah, so that again it's a really good thing you brought that up because it's nice with that markers. They said there's been no changes in blood pressures from their basic metabolic panel that they ran from the studies that I've been most recently done. They pretty much consistently find it a couple things with high protein intake says your GFR. How much is a filtration rate a marker for how much basically how much blood is passing through your kidneys will increase but as long as you don't have existing, you know, either chronic kidney disease or your renal function existing renal functions in this perfectly healthy that increases an unconcerned the caveat that I definitely do want to point out is if you do have existing renal poured it to diminish to decrease capacity of that renal function or you have chronic kidney issues high protein diets can potentially exacerbate these so that is like kind of the the big little or big caveat there.

00:36:34  Related to other kind of elevated enzymes in blood work from me know when I do my own blood work when I look at Kline's blood work or something like that the majority like nine times out of 10. If you have increased even like kidney or liver enzymes with people obviously, you know perfectly fine being concerned about it's generally from training the day before so because if you expecially if we trained like legs or something like that and you're a little bit dehydrated you're going to have some of those markers of protein breakdown in your bloodstream because you just train legs a day before you got your blood drawn. So anytime you do that just kind of take a step back and see. Okay. What did I do the day before did I train legs or something like that before? I went got my blood work done. And that's generally going to be the case. I find for a lot of people cuz it's not known that he'll probably take a day or two off from training before you get blood work done with kind of like the creatinine hell if you take creatine, your creatinine is always going to show up like ridiculously high in the doctor is going to be

00:37:34  What is wrong with this person? This one was likely be when in your creatinine are generally if you're like some of these lifting weights heavy training regular like mine are almost always like slightly out of range, but I've never concerned cuz I know that

00:37:51  very cool why I think that overall we got some good points out there. I'm glad we got to touch on the the overfeeding protein studies and hopefully we got some good information out there for people to practically apply these protein numbers into their own lives and get the most benefit from it just kind of wrap things up and you know, kind of give you guys a summary of everything generally a higher protein intake as long as you don't have any kind of you no moral religious or dietary restrictions is going to give you more.

00:38:27  Flexibility in terms of what you can do and stay leaner, especially when it comes to dieting if your goal is to really just to stay where you're at maintenance and you want to make your, you know, you're dieting easier on you. You can do, you know, bring your protein down to push some of those carbohydrate calories is a carbohydrate or fat based on your dietary preferences in terms of bulking you definitely want to kind of hit a ceiling with your protein intake because cost-effective and eventually you just need more energy to basically power those processes, which is going to be easier from carbohydrate intake, but Who episode glad we got to dig into the studies and really just kind of flips out for everyone. So if anyone has any kind of remaining questions about any of this on Instagram ping me ping Brian will help you guys out, but until next time talk to you later later. Thank you so much for listening to eat train Prosper. If you found this episode. Evil, Please Subscribe for shares with your friends, you can find more from Aaron.

00:39:27  StrakerNutritionCo.com and more from Brian at EvolvedTrainingSystems.com. Talk to you guys next time.