Eat Train Prosper

Positioning for Improving Exercise Execution: Part 2 | ETP#3

January 19, 2021 Aaron Straker | Bryan Boorstein
Eat Train Prosper
Positioning for Improving Exercise Execution: Part 2 | ETP#3
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Eat Train Prosper
Positioning for Improving Exercise Execution: Part 2 | ETP#3
Jan 19, 2021
Aaron Straker | Bryan Boorstein

This is part two of a two-part series on how to incorporate better position for improving exercise execution.

Bryan and Aaron go into detail on improving mechanics, getting more hypertrophy, and decreasing joint discomfort from the movements you are performing. 

Body Parts Discussed:

  1. Chest
  2. Back
  3. Shoulders
  4. Triceps
  5. Biceps

Topics Covered:

  1. Intelligently searching for the width/depth and angle that works best for you to provide the stimulus you want (chest) and feels safe on your joints.
  2. Pressing with the chest versus triceps (pushing through thumb side, or inner grip on DB’s) 
  3. Pausing at the bottom of all pressing movements; then engaging the chest muscles and driving upward.
  4. The difference in effect of a crossover versus a fly type movement.
  5. Elbow position in vertical/horizontal pulls tell you everything you need to know about what part of the back is receiving the stimulus. 
  6. Movement priorities for fully engaging the lats
  7. A more lat focused pulldown movement
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlm0Ndtl_XE
  8. A more upper back focused pulldown movement
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0oO7iVE8dw
  9. Why we both prefer doing lateral raises in the prone position.
  10. Cues for improving your Lateral Raises.
  11. Cables and the cuff are HUGE hack for lateral deltoid constant tension and MMC 
  12. Face Pull variations 
  13. Tricep Ext movements to the chin, nose, or eyes are much more effective.
  14. Elbows send forward the same way the knees send forward in a quad dominant squat providing a deep stretch at bottom of rep.
  15. Are flared elbows ok for joint safety?
  16. The triceps still extend the arm and receive the stimulus if elbows are out a bit.
  17. Cables are generally easier on your tricep joint than performing similar movements with free weights.  
  18. Triceps activation in OHP super high
    https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2013/07000/Effects_of_Body_Position_and_Loading_Modality_on.10.aspx
  19. Full stretch in bottom position, focus on supination and keeping really good force contact with the pinky finger side of the palm.
  20. Relatively equal priority on the 3 different elbow positions relative to the shoulder and training movements through each position.
  21. Study comparing the three different elbow positions during curling movements.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31487841/


More from Aaron
Instagram: @aaron_straker
https://strakernutritionco.com

More from Bryan
Instagram: @bryanboorstein
https://evolvedtrainingsystems.com

Eat Train Prosper Social Channels
Instagram: @Eat.Train.Prosper
YouTube: EAT TRAIN PROSPER PODCAST

Show Notes Transcript

This is part two of a two-part series on how to incorporate better position for improving exercise execution.

Bryan and Aaron go into detail on improving mechanics, getting more hypertrophy, and decreasing joint discomfort from the movements you are performing. 

Body Parts Discussed:

  1. Chest
  2. Back
  3. Shoulders
  4. Triceps
  5. Biceps

Topics Covered:

  1. Intelligently searching for the width/depth and angle that works best for you to provide the stimulus you want (chest) and feels safe on your joints.
  2. Pressing with the chest versus triceps (pushing through thumb side, or inner grip on DB’s) 
  3. Pausing at the bottom of all pressing movements; then engaging the chest muscles and driving upward.
  4. The difference in effect of a crossover versus a fly type movement.
  5. Elbow position in vertical/horizontal pulls tell you everything you need to know about what part of the back is receiving the stimulus. 
  6. Movement priorities for fully engaging the lats
  7. A more lat focused pulldown movement
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlm0Ndtl_XE
  8. A more upper back focused pulldown movement
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0oO7iVE8dw
  9. Why we both prefer doing lateral raises in the prone position.
  10. Cues for improving your Lateral Raises.
  11. Cables and the cuff are HUGE hack for lateral deltoid constant tension and MMC 
  12. Face Pull variations 
  13. Tricep Ext movements to the chin, nose, or eyes are much more effective.
  14. Elbows send forward the same way the knees send forward in a quad dominant squat providing a deep stretch at bottom of rep.
  15. Are flared elbows ok for joint safety?
  16. The triceps still extend the arm and receive the stimulus if elbows are out a bit.
  17. Cables are generally easier on your tricep joint than performing similar movements with free weights.  
  18. Triceps activation in OHP super high
    https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2013/07000/Effects_of_Body_Position_and_Loading_Modality_on.10.aspx
  19. Full stretch in bottom position, focus on supination and keeping really good force contact with the pinky finger side of the palm.
  20. Relatively equal priority on the 3 different elbow positions relative to the shoulder and training movements through each position.
  21. Study comparing the three different elbow positions during curling movements.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31487841/


More from Aaron
Instagram: @aaron_straker
https://strakernutritionco.com

More from Bryan
Instagram: @bryanboorstein
https://evolvedtrainingsystems.com

Eat Train Prosper Social Channels
Instagram: @Eat.Train.Prosper
YouTube: EAT TRAIN PROSPER PODCAST

00:00:00  Heads up The Following episode is going to be part two of our two-part series on improving execution and performance of specific exercises last week. We focus on lower body this week. We're focusing on upper body. Let's get into the welcome to the E train Prosper podcast. We provide you sustainable training principles for strength and building muscle effective nutrition practices for improving and maintaining a lean physique and practical lifestyle habits for becoming a champion of your own health. Inside and Out hosted by Aaron Straker and Bryan Boorstein.

00:00:32  Moving into upper body start with everyone's favorite but being completely honest. It is far from my favorite. I don't think it's your favorite either but strained chest.

00:00:46  Yeah, so it's funny cuz chest used to be like my absolute favorite growing up. I mean it was everything right? Like I don't know. I don't know why it just it it made the man. So to speak like in the muscle magazines and stuff. They'd always talk about how your chest walks through the room before you do in like all the time because it was the same exact thing for me. I remember like freshman year when they like made us all start lifting after football and there was like the first set of kids who could like bench 135, you know, there's a full plate 45lb flavor should like to know the lineman and stuff and then I remember like it deeply bothered me that it took me longer till it's a bench 135 and then obviously as you get stronger. The same thing happened to 225 and 225 is like the tests right now look like when you're like, you know, 15 or whatever you're like strong and is it really really bothered me that I could have do it for so

00:01:46  But now my now I train chest just because I don't want to neglect things but looks like don't really enjoy it.

00:01:55  Will you have a good chest genetically, you don't really have to be to be a part of it as well like it there by or tea could be spent there my time in volume in recovery capacity could be spent in other areas Jeff why can definitely say growing up that I was really bad at barbell benching. I have a theory that whatever you did and prioritized when you were, you know, going through puberty in your first few years of training kind of stick with you we talked about this this before but I couldn't barbell bench much when I first started I was fifteen and I I was also slow in puberty, so I didn't have a lot of upper-body development and I didn't like that. I couldn't bench, you know, a 45-pound plate on either side. So and my fragile ego at 15, I just decided to get really strong pada at dumbbells. And you know, it's funny cuz 23 years later and I still really don't like barbell benching I've gone through

00:02:54  I did it for about 2 years in college never really liked it. But did it cuz all the Bros were and then did it for a year really kind of dedicated during the CrossFit days. But other than those three years in a 23 years of training. I haven't done any barbell benching all dumbbells. So one thing I will say about Chester that it was the easiest one for me to build the Mind muscle connection with and it may be because I that was the first one that I really put Priority in when I was beginning training that it was the the muscle that I wanted. And so I spent a lot of time and energy into thinking about it and envisioning it and visualization. I think it is important when it comes to mind muscle connection and then I spent time doing that. But with all of that said it really was only in the last couple years that I even learned how to press.

00:03:50  Prioritizing my chest, you know, it's easy to prioritize your chest when you're doing a fly or cable crossover or something like that because that is the primary mover and when you think about what the actual what the heck does the pack of ducks, right? So it takes their arms out here and it brings them together. It doesn't as much contribute to pressing which is more a Adell and tricep dominant movement. So to learn how to prioritize your chest when you're pressing in a in a sequence in which the triceps in the front delts want to take over. How can we then find ways to change are the way we're pressing through the bar or the dumbbells in such a manner that the chest becomes the primary mover. So when we're looking at dumbbells Witcher, you know my preference the thing that has helped me recently has been gripping the dumbbell on the inside. So we have the dumbbell that for natural propensity is to grab it in the middle if you move your hand into the center of the dumbbell to the thumb side.

00:04:49  Then as you drive out of the bottom that part of the hand is going to be elevated and the tricep the pinky side is going to be depressed. And so you're going to be calling the chest into action more as you're pressing those weights, but that's one of the kind of tips and tricks that I've been using recently with my dumbell pressing and it's definitely helps me get a better connection with the chest. Then I had prior another thing that I think super important and I do this with all pressing movements now is pausing at the bottom.

00:05:24  Pause at the bottom is a cool thing it especially with with quads to I we didn't really cover that. But like the thing with pausing at the bottom is that it forces you to control your descent. If you don't pause at the bottom, then your natural inclination is to use the stretch reflex and come back up. But when you're using that you're just using the stretch reflex, you're actually using the muscle itself. So by lowering down I'm actively thinking about in the same way. We were with the quads were actively thinking about feeling this chest load with tension into a deep stretch position at the bottom pausing engaging and then being able to manifest power through the chest muscles the pause allows you to almost gather yourself to mentally connect with the areas that you want to use during the ascent. So I think both gripping the dumbbells on the inside pressing through the thumbs thumb side and then also making sure that you're pushing through are pausing at the

00:06:24  Autumn and then engaging with purpose in each press is going to be a vital component. You know everything you just said the one thing I thought was really really interesting about what got priority when you were younger and then the just like the kind of mind muscle connection and I kind of had this thought as you were talking about like maybe there has to do something with like the the the duration of that connection and how long it's been there something like that because I agree that same way I can do one set of chest and completely blow it up. Like I have a credible pop like you're so much blood in their from cuz I just have such a good connection with it, but for other muscles like I mean it's a challenge but the chest and it's so so easy and it's strange cuz but I don't like doing it because I kind of think it we talk which don't really need it of comparative leave everything else one thing I will say

00:07:17  I personally if I am going to do chest it's almost always going to be an incline version. It's much feels much safer on my shoulders. I just feels like a much more intuitive pressing motion for me could be because I have very very long arms. So that kind of makes it just a little bit safer in that regard. Where is I'm I'm in a little bit different of a position. I'm bringing it higher on Neno towards my like about a little bit higher than the flight and it just feels much better for me and agree. I always pause everything because it just allows me to like, okay connect and think about looking riding with that off that bottom position as opposed to just like, you know using that stretch reflex. So yeah, I agree with everything you said on chest.

00:08:02  I don't really like flat pressing in general either I tend to do most of my like flies or fly press movements flat because I think naturally the way that the arm moves it comes back a little bit. So you end up getting a bit more upper chest just from the the nature of that movement pattern but there was a study relatively recently. I think they covered it in mass in the last month or two where they compared flat bench only incline bench only or flat and incline bench and I want to say that flat bench only underperformed the other two and that the other two sequences of inclined + flat or inclined by itself were somewhat similar as far as total package Altman, but that the incline plus Flathead like a slight Advantage. I remember seeing that I remember seeing like a post about it and that's what I remember as well like a flat only action performed the worst.

00:09:02  Call let's talk about back. I think this is going to be a good one specifically because both you and I love training back and it's like a little bit in uncommon for for that as much, you know to be a favorite body part probably because you can't see it. But for me, it's just always been so much for make a fight. You know, if I if I ever was having like a terrible Jim day, like I can always just get back in and it just good like I never have any bad back days. So let's not have you kind of kicking off tickets through some of the movement patterns difference with the horizontal vs vertical pulling and then we'll just talk about it.

00:09:39  Yeah, cool. So the big thing with back and left first person. Actually I loved back to us. It doesn't put that out there real quick back is awesome. And I think it's also one of them both for both of us and one of our better body parts and I think that we both also agree that the back and handle a lot of volume and I think that part of the reason that the back and handle so much volume, is it there so many different parts to it. So to say that you're just training back you like. Okay the upper back is it lots of the mid back as a director is like rear delts. I mean, they're all lower traps. They're all kind of part of the back. So the key to to what part of your back you're actually training is what the elbows are doing. And this is really the biggest piece of knowledge and I think I can pass on to anybody and when I tell some people that goes like Oh my God, like I never knew this but do you know in theory makes sense? So

00:10:32  One of the things I always get are people sending me Ro videos for form critique and they're like, how is this is this right and what I often find myself saying is that they're almost isn't like a bad way to row. I mean there's that form when your rowing but how your rowing

00:10:51  really depends what part of your back you're actually targeting. So simply looking at like a bent over dumbbell row. You can row let's call it three different ways. There's probably more but you could grow up into your upper chest and your elbows are going to come out like a t and if your elbows come out like a t we're essentially prioritizing 100% of the rear delts traps rhomboids type area. There is literally no Latin Volvo. So as soon as your elbows turn out the lights turn on if you wanted to Rowan and recruit the lats then you roll with your elbows coming back toward the waistline. You keep those elbows in nice and tight and the finish of the movement. Has that dumbbell almost by your hip. So instead of coming out like a t where that dumbbell is going to be up by your shoulder at the top. We're going to turn that arm down so that the elbow comes into the Hat.

00:11:51  As does the dumbbell that follows that that line of pull so both ways are great examples of rowing there just for a different purpose when we talked about the lats it gets even more complicated because I mentioned how you can roll out that dumbbell into your hip and you'll get some Latin woman. That's true you will you also still get some of the upper back involvement that you get when you turn your elbow Avenue 80, however, the light turns off even when you roll into the hip if your elbow passes your midline, so as soon as you begin rowing and your elbow passes, what would be your torso now, we're moving into scap retraction and your lat is no longer working. So this is all very like interesting a nuanced but the elbow determines what you're working and this applies to Vertical poles or horizontal poles. Think about a vertical pole like say you're doing a pull down and you're doing a standard wide grip pulldown.

00:12:51  So the bar is up over your head you're fully extended and then you lean back and you pull the bar. Why down into your chest? If you look from a side angle at this movement your elbows are going way past your torso at the bottom of that movement. So at the contracted position your lights are not really working. You might be getting a little bit of that upper lat kind of right under the armpit area, but your iliac lot, that's the lower portion that's not going to be working at all, but we can buy us the pull down movement for more lower lat involvement by essentially starting the movement in front of the body. So instead of starting a movement over the body, we're going to shift that you see if you can see this if you turn if you're watching on YouTube, you can start the movement like this instead of like this and when we start out front we stay in the active range of what is the lat and then when we pull that movement down the finish position is going to be right about here. So if you can

00:13:51  See, my elbow has not passed my torso. So I know it's kind of weird trying to demo the stuff on YouTube. But but general idea being that if you pull and your elbow doesn't pass your torso and you drive the elbow down toward your waistline as you're pulling instead of back then we can prioritize more of a Telly eclat which is really the part of the light that helps make you look really wide. Right? Like if you're if you're doing a lat spread and you have really big like Opera lights, that's cool. But you want that really big wide bottom lat which really helps to make the waist look a little bit smaller, more by that contrast. So that's kind of your basic introduction into the Way That Elbow movement impact stimulus. And yeah, let's hear what you have to say on it. Then I will say is let's will put a YouTube video in the show notes have about you know, everything you just talked about. I will position in the last stuff like that to help anyone who's in a little bit lost or didn't quick pick up on it.

00:14:51  Obviously explained by a mechanic so we'll do that and I agree. I think especially with the last so I was always seem like I love doing pull-ups, right but I would he know here you have to do you got to go all the way down and like Let Your Arms completely hang and you know your shoulders, you know, retract or detract. I guess I should say and that depress depress exactly and then you know, maybe last year I started doing pull-ups. I would do you like assisted pull-ups with a band or even that assisted machine and I'll only stay in that active range with my pull-ups and it's been a game-changer you cuz you can you just like taking that movement in your just like condensing the quality of the movement to just the you know, the part of them of the moving ear looking get would you like that. That lack contraction and I can do like two sets of pull-ups and like my lights are already blown up so I can just like really really laser-focused the stimulus and providing to exactly where I wanted and then

00:15:51  I want to train, you know, like my my upper back or something like that. I'm going to do like more of like a rolling position which all over a little bit higher not towards at the hip. I'll see my favorite movement. There is just like I'll either pick up like a replication of a pendlay row or a look up. Flow barbell row in the Smith machine. I like the one that's a little bit that's vertical and doesn't have that angle, you know in it and I can kind of like pulled back a little bit. You know, if I if I have them put in my Palms behind me and pull back a little bit and then I can get a really good stimulus in that regard and it's just like it's just perfect for what I'm looking for. So is it cheaper to move money? I totally

00:16:34  I think with back training in general people often use too much weight. And what what what happens when the wait is too heavy is is the upper back just takes over because it's stronger when you're isolating the lat. We're trying to isolate the lat like you alluded to it. This is to pull up machine. Like you can do 20 pull-ups. Absolutely. You can do 20 pull-ups or you can do 20 assisted pull-ups and just wreck your lats and people might think like, why would you do an assisted pull-up if you can do 20 pull-ups in a row, you can do a hundred pound weighted pull up. Why are you doing this as default? Because it allows you to focus more on that muscle and when you're not burdened by load, you can actually connect with the laugh and it's it's like the hardest thing to connect with right, like people have been training 20 years and still have shity mind muscle connection with their lights up being able to reduce the load and understand kind of the movement of the lat and then maybe even begin to Institute some of these practices where you perform a movement where the elbow doesn't pass the midline.

00:17:34  And I think that this really is going to help people to understand that my muscle Connection in and get more out of their back training in general.

00:17:43  What's moving to your shoulders? So shoulders are really really interesting one, especially because of people injured them. So frequently, I know both you and I have gone through that. So let's just talk to me through a little bit of like your kind of favorite movement patterns here with us Shores. Yeah recently cables have just been so important for me the the dumbbells the espectaculos specific back up and talk about how we're talk with. This is primarily of lateral raise conversation and maybe provide context to why that is here overhead pressing is is going to work almost entirely front delts, which you're going to also hit through incline pressing in flat pressing and all the different prices that you do. So in physique sport, we don't do a ton of a front. Work. We also don't really find the overhead press to be super advantageous and stimulus to 50 ratio which we touch down in the beginning of this episode. So, you know, you get a lot of load.

00:18:43  On your shoulders, but your triceps 10 to take over when you're doing an overhead press movement in there was actually a study about this that that found that the triceps we're more active in an overhead, press even than the shoulders. So, you know people people do overhead tricep extensions has like it's basically a narrow grip overhead press is a tricep extension because it is a tricep movement more than it is a shoulder movement. So when we start talking about, you know targeting the Dells for talk about the lateral delts the medial head and soap for that purpose specifically I find cables to just be so much more effective. The main reason being that there is tension at all portions of the movement. So when we're doing a dumbbell lateral raise you get to the bottom 30% of the wrap and the dumbbells are just hanging there. They're not actually providing tension on your lateral delt. But when you set yourself up into a variety of different cable-based lateral raise

00:19:43  Set ups whether you're prone standing one arm maybe with a cuff on a different varieties of cable lateral raises here. You can actually get to the bottom of your movement and you'll still have a stretch a literal pipe tension on that lateral delt so that you can feel a lot of the same things. We were discussing when it comes to the quads or how you want to feel that thing's scratches you descend down into the whole same idea here with the lateral raise where we really want to feel that stretch and then they can track and keep that tension in through the full range of motion. So I'm a huge fan of that. I briefly mentioned prone and I know this is something you wanted to discuss here too. But I think so prone is going to be when your face down on a on a incline or vertical barrier to keep you from being able to use momentum forward. Some people actually tend to cheat the movement by momentum backwards, which I see

00:20:43  A lot Tucson set of people coming forward at the hip and then coming backwards. They'll just come backwards and that's a form of momentum to so I think you need to buy us the way that you're using support for how you tend to cheat the movement for me. I really like the prone just like you do where I'm face down on an incline bench or a steep bench, but other people might find that more beneficial to put their back against the bench and keep their torso opens towards the towards the cable. So just kind of different variations for different people, but I think that finding a way to standardize your lateral raise movement and making sure that you're not just increasing reps because you're increasing momentum is huge and I realized over the years that even when I thought I wasn't using momentum and that I was standardizing wraps.

00:21:36  Lateral raises are so nuanced and specific that even just taking us a big breath at the bottom of a wrap like and then going into your rap. Like even that is a form of momentum. Even if you don't actually really think that you're using your torso or your hips for momentum just changing the way in which you brace for the movement can change can create in the bility for you to get two or three additional wraps. So it's very subtle but you really do need to hold yourself super accountable with these movements in understand that you're not going to Progressive me like you do with other movements, you know, you and I have both been between 25 and 35 lb dumbbells for lateral raises for fucking a decade. So I don't know that I ever expect to increase the weight that I'm using for my lateral raises as much as just becoming better at connecting with my lateral delts and create more effective movement patterns. Yeah. So the the the lateral raises are one of the

00:22:36  Things word for like the first like 10 years in my lifting career. I just couldn't do them. Well enough to provide a stimulus so I didn't like to do them and I think it's one of those things where it's going to be a little bit different for everyone. You have to find that like positioning her that that. Movement passed through your arm feels comfortable and you can actually feel that tension in there in the prone. I really really really like because it kind of rape it stops you from my kind of arch in your chest or doing these different things once it gets difficult because if we restrict your movement just that plane of motion, which is really really nice something else that took me a really long time to figure out is when you're like squeezing the dumbbells really tight or whatever using David took a cable handle it kind of changes how cuz you're like the grip really will kind of kind of mask the the feelings on you a little bit. So what I really like it either using something like Versa gripps, or if I, you know don't have them just holding the dumbbell like really Loosely or kind of using like the bottom of my palm.

00:23:36  Against the temple as well so that I'm kind of like allowing them just like hang in my grip and then just lifting from the top as opposed to like squeezing and Swinging. So just like dangle and Lyft or we are kind of like a little bit of a false grip and that way you like it's just it's changing the stimulus so so much but yeah one of those lateral raises or one of those things that like those are like a physique changing movement because it makes your shoulders more Broad and wide so if you're going to interested in physique, and that is something that it's kind of like a must-do.

00:24:13  I think I was on mute. All right. Yeah, when you think you're doing lateral raises you really want to avoid the risk being back like this because now you're engaging forearm and bicep into the movement. So if you can maintain not necessarily like a false grip, right but like that fingertip grip you were talking about but more just keeping your wrist curved over and now we're taking a forearm out of the movement and were able to use the the lateral Dow much more effectively. So I was really good weed out of its butt perfect better explanation tonight.

00:24:49  Moving to the triceps triceps a really interesting because it's like it's the bulk of your arm rights as much as everyone loves training biceps. Like I feel like if your goal is bigger arms triceps are going to provide you more pedway on your goal in a shorter time because their propensity to grow is just more I would say so let's take us through some of like the other kind of movement patterns for triceps, whether you need to keep your elbows completely in or out and some of your favorite movements for doing this.

00:25:22  Totally up. So people are obsessed with the long head. It's like every person is like all I got to do this cuz it prioritizes the long head or whatever. So the long head is the long head because it is the longer it is the bulk of your arm. Right? So it makes sense that people want to train it. Unfortunately. There are also two other heads that need work. So what you should consider is that the overhead position for the triceps generally seated not lying but seated overhead position is going to provide the most tension and stretch in tear long head. So when we're doing movements like that we want to feel a deep stretch come down at the bottom of the movement and then from that deep stretch position as it's loaded we come back up into the contracted position one really solid movement for this that I alluded to during the shoulder discussion was the the narrow grip over.

00:26:22  So I actually I think this is better done from behind the head as far as tricep priorities ization goes but you could probably do it from the front to me just take a narrow grip overhead press and that's literally the movement that you're doing whether it's behind the head or in front of the head. It does not matter if your elbows flare one of the the big things that cause elbow pain is this desire to constantly pull your elbows and right you're putting them into this awkward position that they don't want to naturally be in but if your elbows flare out who cares your arm or your tricep is still extending the arm. So for me, that was a big thing that I discovered this year is that I'm just going to let my elbows go out into their natural position instead of trying to force them back in and my elbows feel so much better just by doing that. So long head movements are over head with a deep stretch at the bottom the best tricep movement.

00:27:22  I found this year has been different variations of EZ bar or barbell movement where instead of doing a Skullcrusher to the skull or behind the head. We're actually going to take that thing into about the chin level or the mouth or the nose somewhere in that region and what we want to try and accomplish here is similar in theory to what we want to try and accomplish with the way that we stretch the quad at the bottom of a squat to as you squat down and that knee drives forward over the toe that stretch occurs deep into the quad when we're doing one of these tricep movements where we're going to bring this bar in toward the mouth the nose or the chin the elbows are simultaneously shooting down toward your hip. So when you get to the bottom of that movement, you'll feel this immense stretch in your tricep. This isn't going to be a stretch that you feel in the long head.

00:28:18  The long head what you're going to feel when your overhead right but this movement is going to hit the other two heads of the tricep here. So I highly encourage you to give that a try if you haven't before, like a JM press I think JM press actually goes into the neck or chin level. This is just somewhere in that region that feels comfortable with really just a purposeful stretch position at the bottom. I would pause at the bottom drive your elbow down feel that stretch and then push back up and when you press back up, it's almost like a hybrid of like a skull crusher with a close-grip bench press because of the where where the bar is located on your body. So think about that you're not you don't have to just try and do like a tricep extension take movement like this. You actually want to actively press through the triceps as well. Like you would do a close-grip bench. So yeah, that's that's one and then the other thing is the use of cables for something like a Kik

00:29:18  And a kickback is like the worst movement ever with a dumbbell same reasons. I dislike it for lateral raises in that. There's no tension at the bottom. The kickback might even be worse because for the bottom 60% of the movement, there's like no tension, you only get tension very much at the top of the kickback right? But if you set up in a cable machine and you have enough you step back far enough so that there's tension you can literally get tension on that tricep through the hundred percent of the range of motion and at the bottom position instead of no attention. It's like the most tension huge stretch position. So the kickback definitely has utility but let's save that for cables.

00:29:58  Yeah, I agree with especially so for for me particularly with I love using cables for my triceps, but not like your kind of what everyone will use when you see like not like your traditional like press down if I take the steak straight bar the V handle. I like to do them or either single arm or with two cables where I can kind of grip it with the the bottom under my palm. And when I kind of trying to do is find my natural progression of where my elbow and shoulder sit comfortably and then I align the cable to that natural kind of movement pattern so that I'm not like kind of trying to force my elbow and transported out of putting my shoulder in a weird position. Kind of like getting a position where I can kind of walk my shoulder in a comfortable neutral position and then I just extend that elbow and then make sure that at the top of the position I have tension in the cable at the bottom. Obviously you have been an enormous amount of tension, but that I really really like cuz you can load it through that full range of motion.

00:30:58  I would say this one is probably one of those very few times were we I don't want to say disagree, but I think with with the with a tricep expecially so much of it has to do with like your shoulder health and kind of your anatomical position. I would say probably my favorite tricep movement is a line cable tricep extension a similar to like if you were to Google The Mark Rippetoe version of this he recommended bring it behind your know. That's right behind your head but like to the forehead a little bit and then trying to like me or throw it towards the ceiling what happens there as I can finally get a I get a big stretch kind of like the very very top of my tricep will most likely no work kind of meats my back and it really it's really really safe and easy on my elbow joint, but I kind of get that full stretch through like the upper portion as well and that will really really blow my triceps up, but I think again that's going to come down to some

00:31:58  Individual kind of anatomical positions shoulder Health in flexibility and range but agree with finding things. You can move through a full range of motion lower egg making sure it's very very easy on your joints and you're setting your joints up in their natural progression and pathway is going to make sure that you can you know train them effectively and safely and not kind of thread your elbows trying to put them in a weird position just because it says to keep them in strict or something like that.

00:32:26  Yeah, totally. I think that you know, this is just a general statement of training. But any movement that makes you have to think mid rap about whether your joints are hurting or whether proper muscle is receiving the stimulus or anything that's distracting. That's probably just not a good movement for you. So trying to avoid movements that that don't know how you to connect optimally with that muscle and just avoid distractions in movement as much as possible.

00:32:57  I agree. All right last body part and biceps, right? So every every young boy or person in the gym who's lifting right? Everyone's always hitting biceps the which is it seemingly, which is always very interesting. So just take me through. I guess your favorite movements here and what the most important things are for growing up growing biceps. Yeah, totally. So for curls, I think the biggest important thing is achieving a stretch position at the bottom and then making sure that the bicep is doing the work to contract. So a lot of times we see and we know we actually know that the shoulder does the shoulder extension does contribute to buy to Activation. So there are people that will do a curl specifically bringing the elbows up because there is additional bited activation there. I really don't like that. I think that my natural inclination is for my shoulder to take over so I try to pin my elbows more behind my body and that has been a huge

00:33:57  Thing for me like you mentioned it kind of similar look at drag curl, but I don't want elbow travel forward and it's not just because I don't feel as much by Zapped engagement, but it's because it becomes difficult for me to standardize movement week-to-week. If I'm allowing my elbows to come off of whatever thing I have them secured on behind me cacti Lee then tactically then then I don't know that that every week and I'm actually getting stronger in my bicep. So I like that consistency. I like that accountability. I like being able to feel a deep stretch at the bottom like kind of seems to be a trend here. We like our stretches at the bottom of movements and beyond that I will say that there was a study by Chris Barakat and colleagues that came out once a year or two ago, maybe three, but they compared three sets of so, there's three different positions that you need to consider regarding elbow angle.

00:34:57  There's elbows in front of the body. So that would be like a spider curl or preacher curl or something like that. There's elbows behind the body which would be like in Incline curl or a Bayesian curl or your kind of standing facing away from the cable machine and then there's elbows neutral which would be like a standard barbell dumbbell curl standing, right? They did the study with Eric at where they did not in sets of biceps. They did three in each of the three different elbow positions in one group. And then the other group just did 9 sets of neutral or you just doing a standing curl and they found significantly more bicep hypertrophy in the group that hid it from all three different angles, buddy. This is relevant in that, you know, most people that you curl they don't just do one type of curl, but if you are just doing one type of curl, maybe you want to consider adding in the other types of Croswell having a elbows in front of the body elbows neutral and elbows behind body curl movement. My favorite one is my favorite Cable ONE is is that by using Chrome page?

00:35:57  Call that I've mentioned so you essentially are going to stand with your back to the cable machine and let the cable pull your arm back. So that your arm is probably you know, six to 12in behind your body at the start of the rap. So you're feeling a pole and attention in your bicep before you even begin the wrap and then you know, pull up contract and feel that eccentric length in the bicep as it descends back down and. So, yeah, that's my that's my favorite bicep movement again, I like cables a lot for these movements, but I think that more than more than other movements the more than like delzer or triceps. I do see a lot of utility and using free weights for biceps as well. Yeah, everything you said, I I really agree with finding the different positions the elbow position changing the movement in a 202 a very large degree the few things that I will add that I always try and do whatever I'm doing any biceps or full stretch in the bottom position. Like you said, it's a very Rick reoccurring theme for us focus on supination so I don't really

00:36:57  Things were my wrist goes like neutral where my Palms will face each other at the bottom. I always trying to keep my Palms up which keeps the most tension on that muscle and then trying to keep a really good Force contact with like the pinky side of the Palm which helps with like kind of trying to drive supination a little bit more which helps you can track order so that when I finally when I do that I can music significantly less weight get you know orders of magnitude more stimulus out of it and don't have to do nearly as much volume to to get that and it just keeps my elbows happy, right and then I'm not trying to like, I'm not swinging anything because I'm always either like supporting my back or something like that like with the with the incline curls or the spider curls up in a in a prone position. So it is taking, you know, putting myself in a little bit of a confined to it. I can't cheat myself with those wraps and I find that's really really beneficial for myself.

00:37:54  Yeah, great point on keeping the Palm open. I should have mentioned that cuz I'm a hundred percent agree with that. I really I don't like it all when the hand turns if you're coming down supinated and then it turns into like a hamburger at the bottom and then rotates back up again. I feel like it throws off my connection with my bicep and it kind of makes me want to almost incorporation forearm into the movement on a little more the brachialis maybe like a hammer curl. So I definitely agree to keep in the poem open allows you to stay more connected with that muscle and feel that deeper stretch at the bottom.

00:38:29  I agree with that so we know I was really cool. We just went through basically all the major muscle groups of the body talk about are you know planes of motion things in considerations to take into you know, when when your new training and then a little bit of a few specific exercise selection as well. So is a really cool episode and thanks for tuning in guys.

00:38:48  Yep. Yep.

00:38:51  Thank you so much for listening to eat train Prosper. If you found this episode valuable, Please Subscribe or share this with your friends, you can find more from Aaron at straker nutrition co.com and more from Brian evolved Training Systems. Com. Talk to you guys next time.