Evidence-Based Nihilism | ETP#100

[aaron_straker]: 0:25

oh yeah what's up guys happy tuesday and welcome to episode one hundred of

[bryan_boorstein]: 0:34

hm

[aaron_straker]: 0:34

the train prosper podcast this is just a wild thing looking back on like reaching this this milestone since we we started in january of twenty twenty one seems pretty wild he we are in january twenty twenty three so officially two years a little bit over two years since we've

[bryan_boorstein]: 0:50

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 0:50

picked us off

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oh

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and here we are reaching this really sweet milestone of episode one hundred and for this milestone episode we do have a pre cool episode which i am going to let brian

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:00

ah

[aaron_straker]: 1:00

kind of introduce

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oh

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because it is one hundred percent his brain child

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yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:04

episode

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:06

thanks man yeah it is pretty pretty cool

[aaron_straker]: 1:09

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09

that we're here at episode a hundred and that we're now like well into the hundred thousand plus downloads which is something i don't know if either of us ever like we always hoped for but i don't know how realistic we thought it was especially at this point in the journey to be here so that's super cool and appreciate all you guys listening and all that so this episode has in some ways kept me up at night it got put off last week because aaron was sick so i woke up and saw the text from aran being like oh i'm sick i can't do this and i was like okay cool extra sleep and then i woke up and immediately was like i kind of wish we had just done that because then it's you know still hanging over my head but this episode has been really important to me for a number of reasons and i'll get into that a little bit more as we get into it after updates and stuff but this is kind of the breakdown of what you can expect today so research has dramatically helped to drive the industry forward over the last ten plus years thanks to this research we now feel confident about some things such longer rest periods re better for hypertrophy frequency is mostly a means of partitioning volume etcetera etcetera but there are many studies which have extremely fall small effect sizes or state conclusions where it doesn't no matter what we do such examples might be training with lower reps verse higher reps or progressing with reps first progressing with weight when it comes to training volume it's often stated that more is better up to a point is that true for everyone this episode is about going deeper into these studies and understanding that these things very much matter for the individual even if they don't necessarily matter as much on a popula ation level and so that will be what we're discussing today but before we get into the bulk of all that let's kick it over to aran to start our updates today

[aaron_straker]: 3:00

yeah so i guess first

[bryan_boorstein]: 3:01

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 3:01

kind of apologies last week i just around like four

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m

[aaron_straker]: 3:06

started so okay for my time for the listeners out there it is nine p m for me i'm on central indanesia time

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yep

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brian is on mountain time it's six a m for

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yep

[aaron_straker]: 3:16

you correct

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yep

[aaron_straker]: 3:18

sort of feeling like not so hot and i was like oh no and then

[bryan_boorstein]: 3:21

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 3:21

i tried to power through but i was like this is like this is an episode that requires brain capacity and i was like i don't want to be holding on just being like yeah now i don't have anything to add

[bryan_boorstein]: 3:33

uh

[aaron_straker]: 3:33

like it would ave ben a worthless episode um

[bryan_boorstein]: 3:35

yeah

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so we punted it and then i

[bryan_boorstein]: 3:38

a

[aaron_straker]: 3:38

ended up getting sick and that kind of leads into some on other updates so a couple episodes back i briefly touched on the pros the project i have with jackson pas

[bryan_boorstein]: 3:51

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 3:51

called upgrade we opened that today morning for registration and it sold out and under thirty hours which was like an amazing response like we said our you know r pie in the sky you know goal number which is where we wanted to cap for know quality surance reasons and people just aided up and we're there which is

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:09

ah

[aaron_straker]: 4:09

amazing absolutely amazing and then with that

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yeah

[aaron_straker]: 4:17

i made a funny joke yesterday about like you know life is fifty

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:20

ye

[aaron_straker]: 4:20

fifty there's always like the good with the bad so that was like the really really

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:23

h

[aaron_straker]: 4:23

good today

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:24

oh

[aaron_straker]: 4:24

bad today was something i ate completely demolished my stomach and i haven't left the house since and

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:31

ah

[aaron_straker]: 4:32

i've been horrible

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again

[aaron_straker]: 4:35

stomachs again

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a second time

[aaron_straker]: 4:37

m yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:37

oh man

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so um like i was like i just hope it stays to like my stomach in that way i can

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yeah

[aaron_straker]: 4:44

record the podcast episode my stomach

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:46

hm

[aaron_straker]: 4:46

isn't like shambles it's been all

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:48

oh

[aaron_straker]: 4:48

day

[bryan_boorstein]: 4:48

man

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and then yesterday i had for for those long time listeners back in january of last year i had that crazy story with the the insane a cramp from like the depths of hell that thought i like you know ruptured something in my stomach happened a couple of days after i was sick well we just touched on that i was sick you know a

[bryan_boorstein]: 5:11

m

[aaron_straker]: 5:11

week ago

[bryan_boorstein]: 5:12

hm

[aaron_straker]: 5:13

and it happened again yesterday i was doing you know like hanging knee raises and at the end of the second set everything just completely locked up on me it's like the most i couldn't believe it actually happened again first but it's

[bryan_boorstein]: 5:30

ah

[aaron_straker]: 5:30

like you're incapacitated right because it's like you can't you can't force stretch it because everything is locked down and then when bend over more it just gets worse and it it was horrible absolutely

[bryan_boorstein]: 5:44

i

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horrible

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can't imagine that sounds

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so

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just awful

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and the only thing i can think of is that it's only happened to me twice both times have been after i have

[bryan_boorstein]: 5:51

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 5:51

been sick like about four or five days after i've gotten sick it's only two times i've been sick so there must be some like lingering dehydration type thing in my core and both times i lost like i was down like four pounds you know this week um from it and in my notes that i typed up for having the episode last week i put i'm back in the two hundred pound club i've been

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:14

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 6:14

over two hundred pounds for you know five days in a row now and now i been in the one six s and one ninety seven

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:19

oh man

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all over again so i had to like kind of cross that out but those are my big updates for now there was one more

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a

[aaron_straker]: 6:30

kind of want to touch on but

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:30

ah

[aaron_straker]: 6:30

i might kick it to next episode and we'll have a little bit of a discussion around it with the highs and lows of on preneurship

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:36

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 6:36

which i'm sure you can add some

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:38

yep

[aaron_straker]: 6:39

lots of quality information to that

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:42

yeah for sure well i had no idea your stomach was still on the fritz

[aaron_straker]: 6:46

a

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:46

so i appreciate that that you're pushing through here today and making this thing happen

[aaron_straker]: 6:50

of course

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yeah

[aaron_straker]: 6:52

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:52

okay cool so i'll be quick on my updates too so that we have enough time

[aaron_straker]: 6:55

yeah yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 6:55

to get to kind of the bulk of the episode today but i do have a few things so my strength or neural phase is in week two right now the first week which was like a de load intro week i basically did two sets for everything across the board at three times a week full body set up so essentially i was hitting close to six sets per must group per week some of them had a little bit less as they were only trained on two of the three days like for example i didn't do ods every day i just did like two sets of hacks on one day and two sets of pendulum on the other day i took wednesday off um ham strings i had already els on wednesday leg girls on monday but no ham strings on friday so kind of like a little bit it's four to six sets per week basically and then yesterday i started the second week of the strength cycle and my plan when what i implemented as to bump all the sets up to three and this didn't really seem like it was going to be a huge increase because i wasn't really changing the r r and we were in a de load week prior you know it's pretty pretty natural to increase volume coming out of a de load week into a into a work week so the big compound like length and stuff the pendulums and the hacks and the ardls were you know still hanging out at four to five r i r um but now three sets instead of two and the isolation short overload stuff was more like a two ish r r and for whatever reason the third set just felt very unnecessary on every single exercise and i went through it and the first two it just just felt like a lot but i was like you know this is what we do be blah by the time i got to the fourth exercise i was like and why am i doing three sets of everything i'm just finding it really hard to keep the focus in the intent high when doing a third set and so since yesterday when i did this i've had a few on the side conversations with few people in the indus you and a lot of them have resonated with what i'm saying that two sets is just kind of the sweet spot like you can really get amped up for the first set you can do it again for the second set nuns has said the same thing as well relatively recently on his story and then the third set it's just hard so it's almost like you'd rather have another exercise then to do a third set but then you have to deal with the warming up for the new exercise and the ramp upsets and all that so i don't know where i stand on this right now i'm probably going to continue three sets as i had planned through the rest of this week and just see if i end up way to beat up and unmotivated and if that's the case maybe drop a few of those movements back down to two sets but definitely i was surprised by that it's kind of maybe the realization there so second update is my one arm training experiment is half way done three months in i made a update post on instagram last week about this three months of training only my left arm with direct work and so if you guys want you can go check that post out on instagram if you haven't seen it there's been a lot of cool engagement to and some kind of theories about why things happen the way they do uh essentially what happened was my both arms grew a little bit despite only training my left arm and of course my hypothesis was that neither arm would grow so this was this is really blew my mind i was like what in the world is happening here a lot of the theories are kind of on this whole like neurological side of you know if you mobilize one limb but train the good limb you know it will provide some support to the other limb a lot of people stating things like hey the body is pretty magical you know got to be even stuff like that i'm not exactly sure

[aaron_straker]: 10:40

yeah it's a

[bryan_boorstein]: 10:41

where

[aaron_straker]: 10:41

very

[bryan_boorstein]: 10:42

i stand this

[aaron_straker]: 10:43

very unhelpful theory just like

[bryan_boorstein]: 10:45

right

[aaron_straker]: 10:45

the bodies

[bryan_boorstein]: 10:45

right right

[aaron_straker]: 10:46

the body's magic

[bryan_boorstein]: 10:48

right you know it just doesn't want one side to

[aaron_straker]: 10:50

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 10:50

be bigger than the other

[aaron_straker]: 10:51

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 10:52

the one one person did bring up like who said that and i kind of questioned it and then they were like well you are right arm dominant so if your left arm grows then maybe being that your right arm is a dominant arm that your body wants this this equality more on the dominant side which maybe makes sense at some level i also think that it's very possible that it was just like a one day error in measurement not to say that ice creed up the measurement per se but that one day doesn't give you like a great sample size so i think what i need to do at the sixth month mark is measure for like four straight days in a row and then take the average um so i think that that's for sure going to happen i kind of wish i had done that in the beginning too because again the beginning number could have been an outlier number it could have been like one day where things were just a little smaller and then now this day that i measured halfway was maybe just a day where things are a little bigger my body weight was mostly the same it's like one pound heavier now than it was then tough to say if that had any sort of impact probably unlikely and then i also want to do a unilateral strength test at the end so i obviously haven't trained my right arm at it will be six months at that point so i want to do like curls with my left arm to failure and then use the same weight and do curl with my right arm to failure and see if my right arm is still stronger than my left even though i haven't trained it for six months i think that will be some interesting data as well but i don't really have a whole lot to say on that i think i'll have a lot more to say once this six months is up and potentially some practical implications for training going forward from there ah two more really quick updates i just love try tip it's such an amazing food i uh it's just such a great way to get protein so i buy this this massive try tip once a week it's like two and a half or three pounds and i just girl it up and slice it and dice it and eat it throughout the week and it's been phenomenal i'm just a huge fan of it it's also pretty lean i did my first peloton i last week and it was excruciatingly boring i i don't know what people love about just sitting on a bike in a room when you could be outside moving around getting fresh air i did a zone to ride so it was like an hour of staring at a screen as i ride through where was i in malaysia somewhere and and i actually found it extremely difficult to get my heart rate into zone to that was the part i think i was the most surprised about is that my legs and the lactic acid built up in my legs was ah so so large that i literally couldn't push my heart rate into zone too so for me zone two is going to be above a hundred and twenty six beats per minute is kind of the range i'm looking for maybe was a hundred and twenty two but i was basically hanging out at like a hundred and ten to a hundred and fifteen beats per minute and then the final fifteen minutes of the sixty minutes i was like you know what screw it i'm just going to push my heart right up and i had to push my legs to like a very very very uncomfortable and unsustainable amount of lactic acid just to be able to get my heart rate up into the zone to reading so i don't know if biking on the peloton is going to be super efficient until i can clear lactic acid a little bit better from my legs

[aaron_straker]: 14:16

m

[bryan_boorstein]: 14:16

and then final update is i'm going to winter park this coming week end to have a big sky day which should be super fun and then in one month from today we leave for our cross country road trip to an diego where we're going to be spending six weeks we are still looking for a nanny so i don't know how many people here are even touched into the nanny world out in san diego or if you know anybody out there but we looking for nanny from eight to two or eight to three on the week days from february twentieth through march twenty fourth so if anyone's touched into that network we haven't had any luck yet on care dot com it may just be too far out so that is it do you have anything to add before we jump into the episode

[aaron_straker]: 15:00

um sure yeah i love that you guys are going back to san diego for six weeks that's the time you went for last year right is that just like something you guys are kay we're going to go for six weeks at the close end of winter to take our family there and enjoy it sort of thing

[bryan_boorstein]: 15:14

yeah get away from the dead of winter here we tend to get the most snow in february march time frame here and we've already obviously been dealing with winter for a number of months

[aaron_straker]: 15:25

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 15:25

it's also pass well that this is the final year that we can do this umbrisonwill be in kinder garden next year so it's probably likely that we can still do it one more year have a bit more trepidation about doing it when he's in first grade and taking him out of lessons for that long as it is we're taking him out of his monastery school here and we have to keep paying because we have to reserve his spot so essentially we're like paying our mortgage

[aaron_straker]: 15:52

ye

[bryan_boorstein]: 15:52

we're getting a place in san diego we're paying his school we're paying a nanny in san

[aaron_straker]: 15:57

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 15:57

diego and it's just like these ridiculous double costs that just oh man they escalate

[aaron_straker]: 16:03

m

[bryan_boorstein]: 16:03

so quickly so

[aaron_straker]: 16:04

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 16:04

the the r i for me is severely diminishing this point

[aaron_straker]: 16:08

yeah when when you when you bring in those very

[bryan_boorstein]: 16:11

uh

[aaron_straker]: 16:11

valid points yeah i could see that

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yeah

[aaron_straker]: 16:15

there was what

[bryan_boorstein]: 16:15

oh

[aaron_straker]: 16:15

was the oh the zone tube yeah that

[bryan_boorstein]: 16:18

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 16:20

the irony in the man i'm going to do my zone to on the bike its chill you know it doesn't really work that way because you need to do it on something that you can support your body that you are supporting your own body weight which makes it the efforts so much higher or you just smoke your legs and then you're trashing your recovery for you know whatever

[bryan_boorstein]: 16:38

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 16:38

next leg day it's it's hard to panage that one that's the exact scenario that i ran into myself when i was trying to introduce me to as i couldn't do it on i couldn't get my heart right high enough

[bryan_boorstein]: 16:49

so i can do it on the bike outside and i think it's because the upper body is involved to with like the turning and the moving and the gripping the handle bars on the peloton literally like the handle bars are just there to support you so you're not

[aaron_straker]: 17:02

hm

[bryan_boorstein]: 17:02

actually exerting any effort in your upper body so i think that idea of kind of using your upper body and lower body simultaneously makes it a bit more effective outside but you also have the deviation and like hills and stuff like that so then you potentially can fall in and out of zone to which is also not ideal if you're training the zone to system so i don't know man i'm gonna have to think about this figure out what the right approach is but yeah the peloton is just super boring m yeah

[aaron_straker]: 17:33

cool yeah nothing

[bryan_boorstein]: 17:34

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 17:34

else for me i'm

[bryan_boorstein]: 17:35

right

[aaron_straker]: 17:35

sure we'll have more conversations around the arm training which i'm pumped to talk about more when that time comes but

[bryan_boorstein]: 17:41

yeah for sure

[aaron_straker]: 17:41

let's dive in

[bryan_boorstein]: 17:42

all right sweet so i had

[aaron_straker]: 17:45

ah

[bryan_boorstein]: 17:45

a number of studies i was going to talk about on here and i narrowed it down to three that i want to talk about in more detail and then two that i kind of want to glance over a little bit quicker and then i may reference one or two others along the way but not really dwell on them too much so before we get started here i think the first thing that we need to do is talk about some of the problems with research as it exists currently and one of the big problems that we actually kind of resolved in some ways with the first study i'm going to talk about is scarpelly twenty twenty but some of the big problems that we had before this study was that people would be assigned to these random volume groups so they might have for example a study where there's a ten set group a fifteen set group and a twenty set group and so you would immediately assume okay low volume medium volume high volume actually you know let's use an exact study from my from my thing as we talk about this so there was a study by heels grave and colleagues from i think it was two thousand nineteen and they had them actually do have very similar thing which was nine sets eighteen sets and twenty seven sets of bicep work um over six weeks and they measured the results with ultra sound so this is one of the studies i didn't want to talk about in detail but i think it's relevant here because what it represents is this problem in research which is that people are randomly put into a nine set group an eighteen set group or a twenty seven set group with no relevant to their history of training so imagine that you are somebody that is placed into the nine set group and told that you are doing low volume but you were doing five sets prior to that so suddenly you're in the nine set group but that is a eighty sum per cent increase in your training volume from five to nine sets so your results in that study are going to be represented uh like you 'regonna be perceived as if you're doing more volume even the global perception is that you're doing less volume so without individual data you couldn't possibly have any insight into that alternatively you could have somebody placed into the twenty seven set group and maybe they were doing forty two sets prior and so suddenly they're placed into this high volume group but in actuality they're lowering their volume so this is the number one problem with volume studies in generals we have no idea what someone's prior volume is um well enter scar pelly twenty twenty which is a really really cool study where people actually were asked what their prior volume was for a number of weeks leading up to the study and then their volume was dictated based on their prior volume so one leg there was was legget legs only one leg would be doing a nominal twenty two sets because that seemed to be the average across a number of different research studies that are out there so they just decided hey twenty two seems like a pretty good number and then the other leg was doing twenty per cent more than what you were doing previously so if somebody was doing twelve sets previously you add twenty percent they're now doing fifteen sets on one leg and then the other leg is doing twenty two i knew that this study existed and i knew how important it was to this discussion in fact i knew that it was going to be the number one most important piece of this whole discussion and i v he clearly remember walking along the bay path in san diego last winter when we were out there visiting and listening to eric helms talk about the individual data from this so there were sixteen participants and was actually referencing this participant you know started at this volume and added this much volume and his legs you know one leg grew by this much the other leg grew by this didn't grow or whatever whatever so i knew this individual data existed when i started researching this episode the first thing i did was go to scarpelly twenty twenty and literally read entire study that was available to try and find the individual data much to my dismay there was no individual data in the study it was not released so i was like what in the world is going on like i felt like i was going crazy for a day and i went out on this mission try to find this individual data um so i asked a number of different people that i communicate with in the kind of evidence space field here ended up having a conversation with the data driven guys about whether they knew where this data was or if they had this data and they were like no no no we don't have the data but man would it be cool to have it and i was like yeah so like i know helms must have it because he talked about it this podcast and they were like yeah we think that kreger got it from the author and then helms got it from kreger so then i'm sending helms this message and and he was so nice to bestow upon me this individual data he told me to ask kreger make sure i could talk about it which i did and kreger was nice enough to let me talk about it so thanks to those you guys were here right now and we are talking about this data so in this study one of the coolest parts about it is that the volume for the individualized leg and the volume for the just general twenty two set leg was really real close it ended up being like twenty three point something sets on one of the legs on the individualized leg and then twenty two on the other leg and the reason this matters is because if it was a huge disparity between the individual leg in volume and the nominal twenty two set leg then people could just say like oh well the reason that the individual leg did better was because it did volume but in this case you can't actually say that because they are close there's no significant difference in the number of total sets that each leg was doing so when you look at the global results of these sixteen subjects ten of the sixteen got better results in the individualized leg than they did in the twenty two set leg four of the individuals had a not a significant difference so they kind of can get thrown out and then two individuals actually did better with the twenty two set number than they did with their individualized number um and then i just kind of want to talk about some of the specific data here because i think you guys will find this really interesting so where is my little chart all right so start ing with the person there were two people that did better with twenty two sets than they did with the individual leg and one of the people that did better it doesn't make any sense like it must be some sort of error because he had he went from twenty sets previous volume so they bumped him up to twenty two and then uh or no because he did twenty two in the non individual size leg and then the other leg that was individual as did twenty four so he ended up getting better results from from twenty two sets than he did from twenty four doesn't really make much sense i think we can almost even throw that individual out but the one that is relevant that i think interesting is the one guy who is doing twelve sets previously he bumped up to twenty two sets and got incredible results fourteen per cent increase in thigh circumference going from twelve to twenty two sets whereas his individual ized leg where he went to fourteen or fifteen sets he only increased one per cent so this guy obviously did weigh better with more volume and you can look at that data and say wow this guy definitely under dosing his volume before on the other side of the coin we have six people that did way better on the individualized leg than they did on the twenty two set leg and so two examples there one guy who was doing ten sets previously so his twenty two set leg he only gained point five per cent but on the leg where he increased his individualized amount up to twelve sets from ten set he gained eighteen point eight per cent eighteen point yeah eighteen point eight per cent which is just insane that's the biggest increase of anybody so this guy obviously shouldn't be doing twenty two sets like he basically had his volume dialed in pretty well right and that ten set mark because bumping up to twelve game have this huge increase another person was doing twelve sets previously so they bumped up to fourteen to fifteen sets and they got a twenty per cent increase in the individualized leg also got a four and a half or five percent increase in the twenty two set leg so this person was kind of bound to grow no matter what right um but those are and then those one more one more really cool interesting data point so this is a guy who was doing forty two sets of legs before the study so his individual his leg he had to increase up to fifty sets and then his other leg went down to twenty two sets which was basically cutting his volume in half from what he was doing before and this guy got three point nine percent increase from doing twenty two sets and three point three percent increase from doing fifty sets so he did get very very very slightly better results by dropping his volume but this was considered a non significant difference so essentially this guy could be doing fifty sets or he could be doing twenty two sets and it literally doesn't matter he's going to grow at a relatively slow rate regardless of how much volume he does so he's basically doing like thirty sets of junk volume essentially i think he'd be an interesting candidate actually to lower his volume instead of raise it and then see if he can can tine to get the same results that he got by fifty sets by maybe dropping to ten and then be like dude you're doing forty sets too many but obviously the study didn't go there so i have some practical a way is from this to discuss but before i jump into those i want to send it over to you and get any thoughts from you on this

[aaron_straker]: 28:36

yeah i think personally i think this is probably like the gem

[bryan_boorstein]: 28:40

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 28:40

of the studies

[bryan_boorstein]: 28:41

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 28:42

i mean this individualized data is i mean i think i think if

[bryan_boorstein]: 28:47

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 28:47

we had add this type of information for a lot of the studies that come out we would have a much different extrapelations and conversations around because

[bryan_boorstein]: 28:57

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 28:59

now granted i think releasing this information in my completely

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:05

ah

[aaron_straker]: 29:05

uneducated

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:06

ah

[aaron_straker]: 29:06

opinion standpoint i don't know too much about how research is conducted seems rather

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:11

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 29:11

simple

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:12

m

[aaron_straker]: 29:12

um but who knows that can be an oversight there's just so much more of the conversation to have when you can see the data as opposed to like no it doesn't really matter what you do which is what

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:24

right

[aaron_straker]: 29:24

the conclusions of a lot of the studies that say but when you look at the individualized data it's quite telling because what it

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:33

m

[aaron_straker]: 29:33

does to me is my brain goes to like well what are the next questions to ask why know this person performs so much better on the lower volume approach

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:42

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 29:43

at ten set or twelve sets per week versus

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:45

oh

[aaron_straker]: 29:45

twenty two why is this guy you know the poor bastard who doesn't respond

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:50

uh

[aaron_straker]: 29:51

to anything why is nothing working for him

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:54

uh

[aaron_straker]: 29:55

um in those sorts of things but

[bryan_boorstein]: 29:58

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 29:58

i think it is really cool to see like the individualized approach overwhelmingly has a more seemingly profound effect from this sub set of data

[bryan_boorstein]: 30:10

yeah one thing i forgot to mention on the beginning of this the study was that overall the increases were nine point nine percent for the individualized group and six point two percent for the non individualized group which is actually quite small the three percent variance there which would kind of lend yourself to have this niolistic view of it doesn't matter if i'm doing twenty two sets or some random number over my my normal volume because it doesn't really matter is kind of the end result until you look at that individual data and then you realize that for the individuals it really matters a whole ton um so jumping into some of the practical take aways here i want to lean on something that i heard josh from data driven strength talk about in in regard to this study and i think it is literally the most applicable ce of this and something i hadn't really thought about so he posed this question of why is it that in scientific studies in general people get such great results like you can take trained people that have been training for three to five years and there's no way that in those prior years of training that they can do an eight week period of time where they increase something like five to ten per cent or in this case we see twenty percent in eighteen percent and like these ridiculous numbers like that like why are people getting these incredible results and studies like are we to assume that their training was really that piss poor before and now suddenly there they're training in this way that's getting them these great results like why doesn't everybody just enter a study which is a great question and i think what you can take away from that is that there's a few confounding variables that go into when somebody enters a study which is an increased focus in that specific area so if this trained person is basically just following like a well roundage training program they go into the gym and they are focusing relatively intently on each session when they go in but then they're put into this study they're like hey your quads that is the thing so every session when you come in here to this research lab and we put you through a quad work out that is the thing you're focusing on so these guys are still lowed to train outside of the training study they just don't train quads but they can still train their upper body and the rest of their body but it's their quads that grow and so it's not that the training protocol of the training study is necessarily the thing that fire it's probably more that there is an area now that is requiring all of their focus attention and priority they have a date twice a week or whatever the frequency is where they have to come in and impress somebody and focus specifically on that area second that area is always trained first who knows when your normal training program if you're doing like an upper low or split like are you always coming in and doing all of your quad work right when you're fresh or whatever the focuses of the study maybe it's a biceps study are you always doing biceps first probably not because most people know that if you do biceps before back training your back training is going to suffer but when you come into a scientific study you are suddenly putting all of your emphasis into training your biceps um so we see that as well and then so what's the application of that well josh believes that maybe the application is that we just constantly have a specialization phase going on we're always specializing on something so he proposed maybe it's a half body or a third body split where you're focusing specifically on like a third of your body at any given time you do that for eight to twelve weeks or o long you want and then you switch the focus and you shift to another third of your body and you put all your emphasis there and so it's not just you're training more volume to those areas which seems to be validated by this study you know hey increase your volume by twenty per cent and you'll get better results than if you just left your volume the same or did a nominal amount of volume um m but it also gives you that focus you go in and you're like hey i am now for these next eight to twelve weeks i am focusing on whatever those muscle groups are and so you know when you go into each session that those muscle groups go first be get the most of your mental focus and the most of your effort and so i thought that that was really really interesting well put by josh because especially as an advanced athlete but probably relevant to everybody but especially as an advanced athlete the margins are so small that i wouldn't you take advantage of what we know about maintenance volume being pretty low and be able to kind of ramp up the volume more for some of the some of the other areas that you're specializing during that time m

[aaron_straker]: 35:09

yeah that i think the reason

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:12

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 35:12

we we i'm

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:13

m

[aaron_straker]: 35:13

using a collective we don't is kind of like wishful thinking you know like i don't want to

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:18

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 35:19

only take my back volume o because now i'm going to lose i'm goin lose gains or whatever even though that's not what the research supports

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:28

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 35:28

whatever it's kind of like it's like a fear based thing you know and i think that's

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:31

ye

[aaron_straker]: 35:32

that's largely a human

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:34

oh

[aaron_straker]: 35:34

nature in

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:35

yeah yeah no i agree i mean i've struggled with that too because in

[aaron_straker]: 35:40

same

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:40

my brain i'm like i just want everything

[aaron_straker]: 35:41

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:42

to grow but

[aaron_straker]: 35:43

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 35:43

in trying to grow everything it's it's highly likely that i'm not growing anything so i think that it's important that we that we kind of take a little bit more of a prudent approach there and i think that my next cycle after this strength phase like in

[aaron_straker]: 36:02

yea

[bryan_boorstein]: 36:02

mid february i think it's probably going to follow this model more where i'm going to upvolume and prioritize a third of my body and then probably rot that every couple messodes or something like that

[aaron_straker]: 36:14

i like the third

[bryan_boorstein]: 36:15

ah

[aaron_straker]: 36:15

approach i feel like that's a very it seems like a little bit more realistic in practice

[bryan_boorstein]: 36:22

yeah i mean i think there's also reason maybe to just choose one muscle group like it then you don't have to go quite as low with everything else so if you're that neurotic

[aaron_straker]: 36:32

hm

[bryan_boorstein]: 36:32

type that's like man if i drop down two thirds of my body to maintenance like i don't know that seems to me like a little bit tough but if you can just know that all you have to do is increase a little bit of volume and put a little more focus and do it first in your workout for one body part or maybe two body parts

[aaron_straker]: 36:51

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 36:51

than that seems easier to digest for me than okay i'm going to up my volume on chest and back and biceps this time or something like maybe it's just chest or just back or something like that it also probably depends on like the size of the muscle group like back is so massive that you can't really i mean if you're going to relies on on back i think that that is like a third of your body so yeah it just kind of depends how you want to think about that

[aaron_straker]: 37:20

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 37:20

all right so the second study here is high versus low load training different load intensity transition schemes to avoid plateau and no pons and lean body mask gain in post menapauzle women post metapausil women that is our target audience

[aaron_straker]: 37:39

ah

[bryan_boorstein]: 37:39

here right the thing is that this is carnero and colleagues now that this study on a population level doesn't really apply to us but the individual data is why we're here that is the important thing so essentially what they did here is a twenty four weeks study twelve weeks where it's a cross over so the women would do both interventions so one group was doing oderate load low lower moderate load training twelve weeks at eight to twelve reps and then they would switch and do twelve weeks at twenty seven to thirty one reps twenties even the thirty one's kind of an interesting rep scheme you know do you make sure that you're doing your twenty seven to thirty ones all the time um but that's what they chose so the other group did the rev so that they would start with twenty seven to thirty one reps and then they would do twelve weeks at eight to twelve rebs the training was lower body so they did three sets of leg press leg extension leg curls and calf rays and they did that three times per week so that is thirty six sets of legs per week either in the twenty seven to thirty one rep range or the eight to twelve reprangeumyeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:02

i think it's important to add in this study it was also to volitional failure so what i think is

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:09

volition

[aaron_straker]: 39:09

just amazing

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:10

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:10

is if we just kind of take a step back frame this they took post man apaustal

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:15

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:15

women which is like okay women in like you know late

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:18

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:18

late forties

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:18

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:18

early fifties sort of thing yeah for six

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:22

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:22

months three times per week taking the leg press

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:27

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:27

and like extensions to failure

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:29

right

[aaron_straker]: 39:30

through me

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:30

it's a pretty inn

[aaron_straker]: 39:32

it's narly

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:32

know it just

[aaron_straker]: 39:33

that's

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:33

makes

[aaron_straker]: 39:33

so

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:33

it

[aaron_straker]: 39:33

nary

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:33

makes you laugh right and makes you laugh like how sore were they

[aaron_straker]: 39:37

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:37

imagine like especially doing twenty seven he won reps

[aaron_straker]: 39:40

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:40

of leg press to failure i couldn't even

[aaron_straker]: 39:43

yeah and okay

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:43

um

[aaron_straker]: 39:44

come back on wednesday come back on friday we're doing it all over again thirty one

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:48

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:48

raps

[bryan_boorstein]: 39:49

yeah i mean i think it's pretty obvious that that in this case the volitional failure was probably not accurate umyeahyeah

[aaron_straker]: 39:57

rightfully so you know what i mean if if you if you took if you put me in

[bryan_boorstein]: 40:02

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 40:02

this study let's say i could do forty reps and i

[bryan_boorstein]: 40:04

m

[aaron_straker]: 40:04

got to like thirty one i'm like a uckidosover

[bryan_boorstein]: 40:07

right

[aaron_straker]: 40:07

a fucking dud

[bryan_boorstein]: 40:08

you just pretend that you make it look so slow that you're just like i could do nine more but it burns so bad i'm just going to slow

[aaron_straker]: 40:14

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 40:14

this one down

[aaron_straker]: 40:15

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 40:15

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 40:15

i bet

[bryan_boorstein]: 40:16

no i agree which is why i think these studies like just globally you can't take anything from them but when you look at this individual data that's really the important part because the overall finding of this study was it doesn't matter you can train in twenty seven to thirty one rep range or you can train in the eight to twelve rep range and it doesn't matter this is literally what they found in the met analysis that they did with show and fell too and so this actually kind of grinds my gears about meta analysis as well is that to me it almost feels like meta analyses are even fur you're removed from the individual data because you're taking all of this this data of population averages and you're combining it together but you're even more losing the individual data so i don't know what i think about meta analysis these days like it just if you're looking at training somebody on a population level then yes i guess you lean on those and you say okay this is the best that we have but you have understand as a coach that just it's kind of almost meaningless like once you get past the first two months of training with somebody coaching them it just it just doesn't matter my view on things but okay continuing along um they progressed by if you hit the top of the rep range so either twelve reps are thirty one reps you would add weight they did a dexa after each twelve weeks segment so you did your twelve weeks of twenty seven to thirty one reps you got a dea than you did your twelve weeks of eight to twelve reps got a deck and as i said the group averages said it didn't matter um across all the participants on average they gained between three and five per cent of muscle increase in each twelve week period general averages so the intervention worked um but on the individual level the one person at a five percent decrease in muscle mass when training with eight to twelve reps and a ten percent increase in muscle mass training with twenty seven to thirty one reps so for that person eight to twelve is not your money on you are definitely going to be wanting to hang out in that twenty plus rep range and then we had another individual who had a thirteen percent increase in muscle mass in the eight to twelve rep range and a three percent increas in the twenty seven to thirty one rep range so this person obviously was a better respondor to training in general but you would also make the argument for this person that do you want to have to train in the twenty plus reprint for a three percent increasing growth or do you just want to do some shorter more intense sets and get three to four times the increasing growth and so for that person i think it's very important that they know where the rep range is that they perform best ah um

[aaron_straker]: 43:21

yeah definitely that

[bryan_boorstein]: 43:22

hm

[aaron_straker]: 43:22

one again it comes back and like looking at those those those two situations that you just kind of extrapulated for us they seemingly don't make sense right because they are pretty much polar opposites of sorts sort of thing and it's just when you're looking at it at a population level wild that two people

[bryan_boorstein]: 43:44

oh

[aaron_straker]: 43:44

right following the same intervention over a six month period right could have such stark

[bryan_boorstein]: 43:50

m

[aaron_straker]: 43:50

contrast in how they spon

[bryan_boorstein]: 43:53

yeah no it really like it's one of those things

[aaron_straker]: 43:56

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 43:56

where like you can kind of feel i think as you become a semi advanced training you can just sort of feel like where your responses best and maybe it would have been cool if they would have taken some subjective data or information from these subjects like how do you feel what is happening within like the muscular cure and the stimulus that you're perceiving in your body from each of the two rep ranges and see any of those subjective measures that you know mike is retell loves to talk about like the pump the soreness the disruption the fatigue things like that whether those things are relevant data points whether somebody will in fact perform better in the eight to twelve or the twenty seven to thirty one rep range but unfortunately we didn't get that data but that would have been really cool i think to have m

[aaron_straker]: 44:48

yeah kind of like a

[bryan_boorstein]: 44:50

m yeah

[aaron_straker]: 44:50

like kind of base lining your intuition against how you

[bryan_boorstein]: 44:54

ah

[aaron_straker]: 44:54

respond you know and seeing

[bryan_boorstein]: 44:56

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 44:56

if if your intuition

[bryan_boorstein]: 44:57

ah

[aaron_straker]: 44:58

is has any holds

[bryan_boorstein]: 44:59

oh

[aaron_straker]: 44:59

any water for for individuals or something like that

[bryan_boorstein]: 45:02

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 45:03

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 45:04

so this third study is from plot kin and colleagues twenty twenty two progressive overload without progressing load question mark the effects of load or repeti and progression on muscular adaptations and so essentially let me scroll down to my data i have my notes super out of order here so anyways this this is interesting because there are kind of two different camps when it comes to the idea of progressive overload and like we know that progressive overload is important you have to overtime be adding raps or adding weight or adding pauses or some sort of tempo decrease something increase the stimulus that you're receiving to the muscle and this study was cool because it investigated of the most common ones which are increasing in weight versus increasing in reps and so in the study they had thirty eight trained mixed gender people train in the eight to twelve rep range so everyone started in the eight to twelve rep range i think they started around ten reps is what i remember if it's correct and the load group would essentially get to twelve reps and then they would add weight and it would drop them back down and they would work back up to twelve reps and then they would add more weight kind of like you standard double progression the rep group would just hit twelve reps and then they would just keep adding reps and in my mind i feel like those aren't that different yo're not talking about these huge disparities and rep ranges like twenty seven to thirty one or it versus eight to twelve like in the prior stud you're literally talking about someone's hanging out an average of ten reps that's what it turned out to be in the load progression group or you're hanging out at an average of fifteen reps which is what the average was for the rep one group over the course of the study um so as just kind of keeping that in mind as we go through this is probably pretty important both groups took sets to failure apparent they were doing quads again that seems to be he flavor of the day they were doing twice a week they were doing four sets of squads and four sets of leg extensions each session so this pro gram design is a little bit more representative of what you would probably see in practice which is sixteen total sets a week four sets of leg press forces legastension twice a week they did some serious good measurements here so they used ultra sound analysis and they measured multiple spots on the quads which is super cool because it kind of gives us some insight into regional hypertrophy which i want to talk about a little bit as we get going here um they measured the proximal distal and anterior quad so proximal would be closer to hip distal would be further from the hip and then anterior quad would be considered your reckfm and your v m o so vim o is the little tear drop muscle near the knee and then recfem is the big muscle it runs along the front of the thigh so those are interior front thigh quad measurements and then they did the same thing on the lateral side so i guess that they had six measurements maybe because the lateral side would be the side on the outside of the thigh like further away from the middle of your body and they tested both strength and they tested hypertrophy so i mean the data analysis on this study is insane they unfortunately for some odd reason which i can only think for safety but they tested the strength on a smith machine even though they trained a free weight back squat yeah it just doesn't make any sense aaron's shaking his head over there

[aaron_straker]: 49:01

this one i thought was strange too

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:03

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 49:03

with that especially

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:04

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 49:04

when i when i dug into this paper i saw that for i don't know the proper terminology

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:09

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 49:10

i don't know if it's like co authors or assistant authors like dr mike isertell and jared feather part of this paper

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:17

oh interesting i didn't even recognize that

[aaron_straker]: 49:19

yeah so when i was reading the authors i was like oh holy ship dr mice and jarritare on this so i thought that that was particularly interesting because

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:26

m

[aaron_straker]: 49:27

they have like obviously super

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:28

oh

[aaron_straker]: 49:29

super well knowledgeable trainers and

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:31

hm

[aaron_straker]: 49:32

uh personalities let's say for lack

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:35

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 49:35

of

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:35

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 49:35

a better term

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:37

interesting well so even though

[aaron_straker]: 49:40

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 49:40

we can't take a whole ton i think from the strength results given that you performed it on a smith machine but practiced it on a bar bell would literally be like like the equivalent would be like we're going o have you practice three pointers with this normal basketball and then we're going to have you test with a ball that's like a quarter of a pound heavier or something like that it just it seems so incongruent so the strength results slightly favored the load progression group which i don't think surprises anybody there was about a two kilogram higher increase in the strength group compared to the progression group um and the hypertrophy results had a slight lean in favor of the rep progression group which is interesting but the actual individual data points here there was one person that got two point four kilograms better results in the progression group and this is for strength testing and seven point eight and another person that did seven point eight kilograms better in the load progression group so those individuals specifically like if you're training for strength one person may benefit more by increasing raps and another increasing load when you look at the hypertrophy results you had one individual who increased a little bit point five millimeters which is which is like nothing point five millimeters in thigh circumference in the load progression group and then another person that had five point eight millimeters increase in the rep progressing group so again the outliers not quite as significant there but leaning toward the progression group and so some of the reasons maybe why this would be the case is again i'm gonna lean on some of the information taken from the data driven guys because they had really really cool way of just breaking down studies and providing some really quality insight into this stuff but the their theory which is worth repeating is that the isolation movements may do better at increasing in reps and in effect essentially doing higher rep ranges whereas big compound movements may do better in lower rep ranges which again not a huge surprise to anybody one other insight that they brought up was that i didn't realize this but they reference that there has been some study on back squats specifically in different rep ranges and so what they found again this isn't surprising but i think it's it's insightful is that when you back squat for higher reps it tends to be your quads that can take more of the brunt of the work rep to rep whereas when you're squading heavier loads they're so heavy that you your natural inclination is to have to engage more of the more powerful structures of your body such as the hips and low back and gluts and things like that so essentially when you're squatting lighter you can stay more upright and actively focus more on sending the knees forward but as the loads increase your body has these natural compensatory mechanisms that are going to force you to use more of your stronger muscle groups which are your bigger gluts and hips and things like that and then they kind of said that you probably see the same thing in like an l where if you're doing an r d l for higher p you can keep your legs straighter you can let the bar maybe float a little bit in front increasing the moment arm and let your ham strings truly be the limit or more whereas when you're doing an r d l with heavier weight you can't you can't increase the moment arm because your body is going to do everything it can to keep everything as close as possible to the mid line which inevitably is going to engage or of your hips and your gluts and things like that then they also noted that the leg extension the rec fem measurement seems to be the that that was the most relevant in the progression or rather in the results that the reckfem seemed to demonstrate the most growth of any of the quad sales and that was obviously the one trained by the leg extensions which then kind of further validate this idea of maybe slightly higher rep ranges for that for that movement again i don't have all of the individual data here so i would love i wish that i could see the individual data for everybody versus just some of the outlier measurements that i referenced because it would be kind of cool like for me i i don't feel like i get a lot out of fifteen rep sets of leg extensions because i think that it is harder for me to push to those slow grinding reps that i can do more effectively in like the seven to ten rep range whereas in the fifteen rep range the dilactic acid accumulation is so significant and so i would love to see the individual data to see whether there were certain people may be like me that would in fact get better results in lower rep ranges with like tension despite the group averages showing that the retro tion group in the higher rep ranges did better in leg extensions and i remember them pointing out that in the progression group even though the average number of rebs per cent was like fifteen or sixteen there were people that had to progress those up to like twenty or twenty plus reps over the course of the study and so there's obviously if there's some people doing twenty plus reps and the average is fifteen or sixteen then that means there has to be some people that were doing fewer reps as well and so would be cool to have that data

[aaron_straker]: 55:51

yeah again sorry

[bryan_boorstein]: 55:54

motorcycle

[aaron_straker]: 55:54

i got really motor cycle of dressed as i unmuted the individual data it's just

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:01

oh

[aaron_straker]: 56:01

it's it changes how you could really look at things and obviously with how science

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:06

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:07

works like we're going to

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:07

ah

[aaron_straker]: 56:07

report averages we're going to report population means

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:11

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:11

but

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:12

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:12

again what i'm very

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:13

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:14

curious about

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:14

oh

[aaron_straker]: 56:14

is like what are the reasons why right why does someone like yourself

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:21

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 56:22

do not do good in that fifteen rep range on leg extension whereas like myself like

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:27

oh

[aaron_straker]: 56:27

the seven to eight is a little bit too low

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:29

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:30

on the on the leg extension it's just like it's going to hurt my knees and stuff um

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:34

hm

[aaron_straker]: 56:34

but i could like in that nine to like sixteen seventeen i'll do better there and yes there is like a lactic

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:42

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:42

acid component but i wonder like

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:45

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:45

what kind of inherent differences or you know genetic variations do we have that lean us one way towards another instead

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:54

m

[aaron_straker]: 56:54

of just being like

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:55

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 56:56

works for you doesn't work for you like

[bryan_boorstein]: 56:58

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 56:59

for me personally like i don't like the nets were like the period in the sentences

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:03

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:03

like that should be a fucking

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:03

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:04

comma we still have like three

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:05

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:05

quarters of a sentence on the back end of that and yeah and that's just kind of adding some of my own thoughts to this conversation

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:13

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:14

on these things like i want

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:15

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:15

to i want want there to be a common air and we extend and look for more because a

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:21

oh

[aaron_straker]: 57:21

guarantee there has to be something and i know there's

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:23

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:24

there has to be people out there that

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:26

ah

[aaron_straker]: 57:26

know or having these same thoughts that you and i are having it could just be what it probably is is just limitations to the research methodologie's funding i'm sure of course and

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:38

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:38

people willing to donate however much time of their lives to further this in being

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:44

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 57:44

a subject sort of thing

[bryan_boorstein]: 57:46

totally and then i think that probably some of that like when you talk about the biological mechanism for why some people higher ep lower ps like you can look at what i talked about in the up it's and how i couldn't get my heart rate high enough on the peloton to get the zone to because this lactic acid is just flooding into into my legs and so it's very likely that i genetically just have a poorer ability to mitigate black date accumulation and other people that are maybe more erobically enhanced probably clear lactate at a faster rate than i do and so that person can probably get more out of their higher epsets than i can and then that also begs the question of could i train my self to clear lack date more efficiently and if i could which i think is probably likely that i could could train that would i then get better results in the higher up ranges or am i so far out from what like genetic predisposition is that i wouldn't actually get better results there and these are questions that you know we just don't know the answers to

[aaron_straker]: 58:54

yeah add one last thing to that

[bryan_boorstein]: 58:56

yah

[aaron_straker]: 58:57

i have heard

[bryan_boorstein]: 58:57

m

[aaron_straker]: 58:58

this talked about but i don't know the validity

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:00

oh

[aaron_straker]: 59:00

there or is it kind of there a third option in that and it's like ability

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:05

oh

[aaron_straker]: 59:06

to adapt to

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:07

okay

[aaron_straker]: 59:07

the discomfort of the vhelacting

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:10

the

[aaron_straker]: 59:10

kind

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:10

psychological

[aaron_straker]: 59:10

of

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:11

piece

[aaron_straker]: 59:11

the psychological

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:11

here

[aaron_straker]: 59:12

piece yeah kind of like the people who are like you know like when i'm doing cardiotlike the first and of things like getting hard i'm like i'm going to funk and die i need to quit i

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:22

oh

[aaron_straker]: 59:22

need to quit where there's the people who are

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:24

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 59:24

like we'll have that same kind of objective pain threshold that i'm in but they will push for life twenty minutes in it and i can push

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:32

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 59:32

for like nine seconds sort of thing

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:35

i think it's a combination

[aaron_straker]: 59:37

yes

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:37

of psychology and physiology as with any of this stuff but um but yeah no it's very interesting

[aaron_straker]: 59:44

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 59:44

i obviously don't have the answer there so another study here we have a damas two thousand nineteen individual muscle hypertrophy and strength response to high versus low resistance training frequencies um and so this one was actually a pretty cool study because they they again did one leg doing one thing and one leg doing the other and so you were either assigned into the low frequency group which would mean that you either did two times a week or three times a week frequency or you were in the high frequency group which was five times per week frequency so one leg was five times and one leg was either two times or three times and the two and the threes were both considered low frequent whereas the five was considered high frequency and they were doing only three sets each time so they didn't crush you with volume or anything unrealistic you just did three sets oh did i write down what movement it was um i don't think i wrote down what specific leg movement it was but what they measured was the vastest laterals cross sectional area with ultra sound and so i cannot imagine they were doing leg extensions and then measuring the vast later alice so my guest is that they were probably doing leg press yep you're muted you're muted

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:11

this is the one where they tested one at max to where they had it

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:15

no

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:16

okay one

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:18

oh

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:18

of them

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:18

actually

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:18

they

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:19

no they you're right they did they did have a one at max value

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:21

this was

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:21

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:22

it was biceps

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:25

no this is vastes lateralis cross sectional area the biceps one was heels

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:29

that

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:29

grave two thousand nineteen

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:31

okay my bad you're right just said that yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:37

um all good all good if you want to if you want to click on the link and

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:40

hal's

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:40

let me know

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:40

grave

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:40

as i'm talking but my guess is that it's leg press

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:43

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:44

because that's a simple

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:45

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:45

one to do unilaterally as well and it can't

[aaron_straker]: 1:01:48

yah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:01:49

be leg extension when when you're measuring the vastest ladder alis so um essentially what they found is that six individuals responded better to high frequency seven individuals responded better to low frequency and six individuals showed no difference between training with high frequency or low frequency

[aaron_straker]: 1:02:14

m m

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:02:15

um so when you look at the overall results it

[aaron_straker]: 1:02:19

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:02:19

again says it doesn't

[aaron_straker]: 1:02:21

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:02:21

matter if you do six nine sets or

[aaron_straker]: 1:02:23

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:02:24

fifteen sets it doesn't matter because thirty three those were the results but when you look closer at the data

[aaron_straker]: 1:02:32

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:02:32

what you essentially see is approximately thirty three percent of the sample

[aaron_straker]: 1:02:35

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:02:35

size did better with high frequency thirty three percent did better with low frequency and

[aaron_straker]: 1:02:42

as

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:02:43

thirty three per cent kind of did find with both and so if you were somebody obviously that was in a high frequency group training fifteen sets a week but you respond better to low frequency than you're short changing your results and obviously vice versa if you're the other way around so just you know one of them he didn't want to spend

[aaron_straker]: 1:03:02

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:03:03

too much time on but i think it's pretty interesting um and then

[aaron_straker]: 1:03:06

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:03:06

the last thing i want to address here i didn't even put this in my initial outline but it is in my scattered notes

[aaron_straker]: 1:03:13

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:03:13

down here is a study from longo twenty twenty where they compared rest times of short rest to long rest and so when you look at the overall data it shows that with short rests you get significantly better results with higher volumes and then with longer rests the plot changes and you see the low and the moderate groups getting better results than the high volume group when you increase rest periods however when you look at the actual atter plot of the individual data points even in the short rest protocol which generally leans toward higher volumes being better there are plenty of dividuals that still responded better to lower and moderate volumes and in the long rest period even though the data trended to be better for the lower and moderate volume groups there were plenty of individuals in the high our volume group that did better despite having the longer rest periods so it's like you look at these population averages and we know on average it's better to take longer rests but when you look at the individual data it just seems to be all over the place like it's literally everywhere i mean there were literally people with short rest periods under one and a half minutes that did better with one set then people did with five sets just individual data points no it wasn't the average but like that's the way it plays out sometimes you know you just don't know and then this kind of goes back to that thing that i said in the vi beginning of this introduction which is when you're assigned into these groups of low volume moderate volume high volume it doesn't take any consideration into what your prior training was so we don't know whether somebody in the low volume group was maybe doing even lower volumes than that before or somebody in the high volume group was doing higher volumes than that before and so to them the volumes they were doing are actually the opposite of what the study thinks they're doing and just to kind of wrap it up the heels grave two thousand nineteen one which was the the bicep one that you referenced which the fact that they tested one at max was really interesting but they measured thickness and they did one at max and so it was over six weeks the author's conclusion was nine sets one time per week is sufficient for biceps growth but that eighteen and twenty seven sets are better for one red max strength which like literally conflicts with almost all all the data that we have about strength responding better to lower volumes and hypertrophy responding better to higher volumes so this study their conclusion was kind of opposite but again you can look at the scatter plot of who responded best to what and the very best to the very best response was an eighteen weekly set person the second best response was a nine weekly set person the third best response was an eighteen weekly set end and the fourth best response was a twenty seven weekly set person um and when you look at the number of data points below the zero line meaning i guess that some people actually lost muscle um there were much fewer of them further below the zero line in the twenty seven weekly set group which again it supports a lot of the research which is that if you're a nonrespondor to training just keep doing more volume um but there were also average higher response rates in the eighteen week and nine week groups compared to the twenty seven week group so again you know you just have to you have to know what is best for you or you have to spend your journey trying to figure out what is best for you or work with your coach to figure this out or whatever it is because the data might trend one way in these studies on a population level in fact many of them said it doesn't matter you can train either way and we know that that's not true looking at the individual data but like even looking at that heels two thousand nineteen scatter plot like yeah if you're nonrespondor it probably makes sense to do more volume but if you are a respondor nine sets of biceps seems to be quite sufficient for you to elicit growth comparable to the eighteen set group and better than the twenty seven weekly set group so really this whole thing this whole episode is trying to even though it's called evidence space nialism i think it's trying to take the nialism out of research by applying it to yourself as an individual instead of looking at it at the population level which can in many ways breed this idea of evidence base nialism m m

[aaron_straker]: 1:08:36

yeah it's almost like you get you get a diverse of range of people

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:08:40

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:08:40

everyone has their own i guess physiological preferences or things that they respond

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:08:47

m

[aaron_straker]: 1:08:47

to bete and then when you take that average it ends up with a little bit of like that doesn't really matter

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:08:52

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:08:52

at a population

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:08:53

yeah i mean

[aaron_straker]: 1:08:53

level

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:08:54

if you have a ton of responders to high volume and a ton of responders to low volume and then the average is just like hey fifteen sets is the way to go and then you're just like well is it though because these people really responded better to five to ten sets and these people really responded better to twenty to thirty sets so are we sure that fifteen sets is the right recommendation

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:14

yeah and like what are the characteristics

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:16

m

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:17

of people that end up in

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:19

yet

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:19

those groups

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:20

oh

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:21

respective groups and then the one thing

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:22

right

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:22

that i'm really curious

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:24

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:24

about and i'm just kind of posing so some thoughts here i wonder if your like body will leave

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:30

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:30

clues around things so like the people just doing the twenty seven sets of biceps per week like they just in perpetual soreness or their biceps

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:38

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:38

like crushed um is their desire to train you drop off more than normal different things like that i wonder if we as individuals our body will give us of signals a little bit

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:49

hm

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:49

of like when volumes way too high or maybe when it's not enough you know if you're covering super

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:09:55

hm

[aaron_straker]: 1:09:56

fast and you're not training now let's say you're doing a twice weekly thing you train whatever tuesday and friday if by like wednesday

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:04

yah

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:04

afternoon you're ready to go again that's probably

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:06

yeh

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:06

good decent thing if like

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:08

yep

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:08

by sunday you're still not ready to train iceps again

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:11

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:12

no either probably need to drop it or reduce frequency so i'm just posing that i wonder what that actually looks like and that's where those subjective parts could

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:21

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:21

be very valuable

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:23

yeah like the subjective stuff the miisrtel stuff

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:26

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:26

the pump the soreness the disruption the fatigue like stuff like that for sure

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:30

yes

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:30

and then i think even you know you can look back to what i was talking about in the beginning during my updates bout how

[aaron_straker]: 1:10:35

yeah

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:10:36

in my deload week i was doing two sets of everything and then i thought in theory that i should be able to go up to three sets because i wasn't working hard or i wasn't getting close to failure i was just hopping out of a dealoadweek which usually companies and increasing in volume or effort um and so i decided to pull the lever of volume instead of effort and it just felt like too much i mean i couldn't know like you can't you can't have a study say that well brian you know it's better if you were to do three sets of everything than two sets because in my moment of training when i do that third set i know that my focus has slipped that i'm not in ly recruiting the area of the body that i'm trying to recruit as effectively and so in my end of one it would makes sense that me doing three sets is probably if not less effective than the returns the the returns are so diminishing that it may not be a good r o i for my kind of fatigue and recovery spectrum so it really is just like a constant process of evolution and learning yourself whether it's with your coach or on your own and figuring out where you stand in these and if there's one thing that i want people to take away from this specifically as it relates to the volume cause i think that's the one where people still have this inclination that more is better and i even have a one on one client who we were training and he goes you know is it going to be worse for my gains because we're spreading this work over nine days instead of over seven because we were doing it over seven and then you know it just wasn't working with his life stock and you know he needed an extra rest day and stuff like that and so i was like you know let's push this out to nine and he had this hesitation being like well doesn't that mean i'm doing less volume and are by results going to be worse and i was like it really just depends where you fall on the volume spectrum and so our goal working together is to figure out what the best volume is for you it's not to try to chase like a pop ation average that says hey the more all um you do the better because you may be somebody that you know by curating your training frequency slightly over a longer period of tim yes in effect that does reduce your volume slightly per seven or nine day period but maybe that's the right volume for you and so those are the things that you just can't know a study can't tell you that you just have to kind of figure it out as you go and it's a con the process of learning and evolving

[aaron_straker]: 1:13:24

very very well put

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:13:25

m

[aaron_straker]: 1:13:26

i think that is a

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:13:27

m

[aaron_straker]: 1:13:27

fantastic place to wrap up what do you think

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:13:30

cool yeah man i'm good i think it was i'm glad that

[aaron_straker]: 1:13:36

a

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:13:36

that this has done

[aaron_straker]: 1:13:37

oh

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:13:37

it's been like a month of research and you know putting it off for a week and now we're here so i'm really glad we got this episode out i think it went well and we can move on back to ikeinstagram and s and other fun stuff like that

[aaron_straker]: 1:13:51

instagramqan i think we're due for one we're due for another guest and i think the um the thing i proposed earlier in the episode like the highs and lows of entreprenership i think

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:14:02

yep

[aaron_straker]: 1:14:02

in related

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:14:03

yep

[aaron_straker]: 1:14:03

in relation to obviously the

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:14:04

m

[aaron_straker]: 1:14:04

health and fitness field sort of thing could

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:14:05

oh

[aaron_straker]: 1:14:05

be a good one that i'm sure we could add

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:14:07

yep

[aaron_straker]: 1:14:07

lots of so as always

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:14:09

yeah

[aaron_straker]: 1:14:10

thank you for listening to eat train prosper brian and i will talk

[bryan_boorstein]: 1:14:14

oh

[aaron_straker]: 1:14:14

to you next week